Re: Motion to remove the operations manual from the Wiki

[Harold Griffie <hgriffie18@yahoo.com>]

I'm in agreement with those who favor putting the manual on both the website
and the Wiki. I see no harm on having it both places and I don't believe
anyone has stated any valid reasons for restricting it to just one. I will
therefore vote "No" when the motion comes to a vote.
 
Hal Griffie
 
 
 
 
________________________________
 From: Ron Killingsworth <retmiagt@gmail.com>
To: aisdiscuss@aisboard.org 
Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 9:21 AM
Subject: Re:
[AISdiscuss] Motion to remove the operations manual from  the Wiki
  
I
suggest we allow the motion to come to a vote since the original 
motion
makers appear to not be willing to change the motion.  Then, 
those who want
the document on the Wiki Iris and on the AIS web site 
just vote NO. If the
motion fails we can make a new motion that the 
document appear in both
sites.  Again, this is so silly.  Jody is right 
-- the more places the
document appears the better the chance someone 
will actually read it.
I'm
signing off this discussion but will gladly cast my NO vote for the 
current
motion when it comes up for vote.

Ron
Director, AIS
Adv Editor, Irises

On
3/15/2013 07:14, Jody Nolin wrote:
> This is a a fascinating thread to read,
but there are several issues
> contained and it's getting a bit confusing.
>
Just a couple of thoughts, not to make it even more confusing.
>
> Ron,  as
far as I remember Roy Epperson was the last parliamentarian we had.
>
> Susan
and John, you are absolutely right on about off-the-cuff motions
> and
committee actions.  The business of the AIS is a business.  And
> should be
run with the same thought and accountability.  We've
> improved a lot in that
regard, but still have a way to go.
> Having chaired a couple of ad hoc
committees, I can attest how hard it
> is to get committee member input and
consensus.
>
> As for the original or amended motion, the more places we
publish
> information, the better. Maybe someone besides us will actually read
> it.   If our membership wants to hold us to our own rules, great.    I
>
also agree that this should not need board action.  And information on
> the
wiki, blog, bulletin or website is the property of AIS, not any
> one
committee or person.  As such it should be available to any outlet
> of the
AIS.
>
> On Thu, Mar 14, 2013 at 3:11 PM, Michelle Snyder
>
<AISSecretary@irises.org> wrote:
>> Please remember that the amended motion
has been withdrawn so the only thing
>> we will be voting on is the original
motion.  The motion does not go out for
>> vote until next Tuesday.
>>
>>
Michelle
>>
>>
>> On 3/14/2013 10:47 AM, RON AND SUSAN COSNER wrote:
>>> Do
not know if we have to or if we are voting but I like Gary White's
>>> amended
>>> motion and vote yes for this
>>> Thank you and happy gardening
>>> Ron
Cosner
>>>
>>>
>>>> Subject: Re: [AISdiscuss] Motion to remove the operations
manual from the
>>> Wiki
>>>> From: jijones@usjoneses.com
>>>> Date: Thu, 14
Mar 2013 10:06:46 -0700
>>>> To: aisdiscuss@aisboard.org
>>>>
>>>> HI Susan,
>>>>
>>>> I have often asked to have those who know they are going to prepare
>>>> motions
>>> draft them in electronic form and send them to me so I don't
have to type
>>> them
>>> (in my slow error prone style) for the big screen. A
few do, but a lot of
>>> our
>>> motions are drafted on the spot.
>>>> Things
do sometimes get out of control at the meetings, but a lot of
>>>> times
>>>
to, people wait to be called on.
>>>> Thanks
>>>>
>>>> John
>>>>
__________________
>>>> John and Joanne Jones
>>>> Registrar-Recorders,
American Iris Society
>>>> aisregistrar@irises.org
>>>>
>>>> John Jones,
Chairman, Electronic Services Committee
>>>> aiselectronicsvcs@irises.org
>>>>
>>>> 35572 Linda Drive
>>>> Fremont, CA 94536
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On
Mar 14, 2013, at 8:48 AM, Susan Grigg wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I agree in part with
Gary and with John; however, it would be to the
>>> Board's
>>>>> advantage if
committees worked so well that motions that needed to be
>>>>> brought to the
Board from a committee were prepared ahead of time,
>>> presented
>>>>> with
the committee report, and any necessary amendments done then. Does
>>> it
>>>>> just involve too much typing or are our committees not functioning well?
>>>>>
>>>>> Why can't we at least raise hands to be recognized by the
President
>>> before
>>>>> we speak during the Board meeting? Discussions are
dominated by anyone
>>> who
>>>>> talks fast and loud.
>>>>>
>>>>> Susan Grigg
>>>>>
>>>>> "Where there is no law, but every man does what is right in his
own
>>>>> eyes,
>>>>> there is the least of real liberty."
>>>>> Henry M.
Robert
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From:
owner-aisdiscuss@aisboard.org
>>> [mailto:owner-aisdiscuss@aisboard.org]
>>>>>
On Behalf Of gary white
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 3:16 PM
>>>>>
To: aisdiscuss@aisboard.org
>>>>> Subject: Re: [AISdiscuss] Motion to remove
the operations manual from
>>>>> the
>>>>> Wiki
>>>>>
>>>>> I agree with all
that John has posted below concerning the way we handle
>>>>> motions at our
spring and fall board meetings. While it has not been
>>>>> exactly by
Robert's Rules of Order, it has usually worked well in the
>>> board
>>>>>
meeting situation, and sometimes there is a need for considerable
>>>
discussion
>>>>> on a particular topic and there may be several of what
Robert's Rules
>>> refers
>>>>> to as "friendly amendments" on an abbreviated
basis. These usually get
>>>>> to
>>>>> the same result as if we took the much
longer route and made multiple
>>>>> amendments, voted on the motions to
amend, then voted on the amended
>>>>> motions. The easiest way out and still
follow Robert's Rules is to make
>>>>> suggestions for revision as the motion
is being written, but before the
>>>>> President announces the motion for
discussion. After that, we may not be
>>>>> strictly following RR, but as John
indicates, it has worked well for us
>>> when
>>>>> there are "friendly
amendments".
>>>>>
>>>>> But, it is not so easy to do this with electronic
motions, especially
>>> when
>>>>> there may be differing opinions and views
on a motion. There is not the
>>>>> same ability for all to review the motion
and make suggestions for
>>> revision
>>>>> before it is announced for
discussion. There is, by necessity, a
>>> prolonged
>>>>> discussion and
voting time with electronic motions, and there is not the
>>>>> same ability
to expediently discuss and compromise, etc as at a live
>>> board
>>>>>
meeting.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Gary
>>>>>
>>>>> --- On Wed, 3/13/13, John
Jones <jijones@usjoneses.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> From: John Jones
<jijones@usjoneses.com>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [AISdiscuss] Motion to remove the
operations manual from
>>>>> the
>>>>> Wiki
>>>>> To: aisdiscuss@aisboard.org
>>>>> Date: Wednesday, March 13, 2013, 1:08 PM
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> It is true
that Article 10, Section 3 of the AIS By-Laws (4-04-11)
>>> states:
>>>>> "The
parliamentary rules contained in the most recent edition of
>>>>> Robert's
>>>>> Rules of Order shall be used in all meetings of the AIS to cover
>>>
questions
>>>>> not provided for in these bylaws."
>>>>>
>>>>> We may have
been playing a little "fast and loose" with Roberts Rules
>>> (RRs)
>>>>> in
the process of making and discussing motions, but I think that what
>>>>>
evolved over the last several years serves us pretty well. The whole
>>> point
>>>>> of having motions displayed on the big screen and modifying them as
>>>
directed
>>>>> by the board was to help ensure that the motion gets worded
properly to
>>>>> effect the action that the board wants. While this may
engender a little
>>>>> more non-RRs discussion, I believe that it saves time
in that we don't
>>> have
>>>>> to vote to reject a motion only to have it
resubmitted in a revised
>>> manner,
>>>>> changed again etc. None of use are
exceptionally adept at constructing
>>>>> perfect motions the first time and
this provides a reasonable process
>>>>> for
>>> us
>>>>> to use. Changes are
accepted by the originator and seconder prior to a
>>> vote
>>>>> being taken.
>>>>>
>>>>> Certainly there are times when discussions drag on but most often
they
>>>>> proceed pretty quickly. There are lost of times when someone's
comment
>>>>> brings up an idea for someone that has already spoken and I
think that
>>> the
>>>>> often short period of open discussion we have used in
the past serves to
>>>>> bring us all to better conclusions. The AIS President
maintains control
>>> of
>>>>> the meeting and can end the discussion if
needed or a motion made to
>>>>> Call
>>>>> the Question
>>>>>
>>>>> With the
exception of one meeting (when I was in the hospital) I have
>>> served
>>>>>
as Motions Secretary at the pleasure of the Board since we started doing
>>>>>
this at the Fall 2004 Board meeting. While the process is not strictly
>>>>>
according to RRs, I think that it serves the intent behind those rules
>>>>>
in
>>>>> that we accomplish a lot in the period of time that we use. certainly
in
>>> the
>>>>> last 7-8 years we have have has progressively shorter
meetings while
>>> still
>>>>> getting the business done that we need done.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't mean to imply that we should continue doing something just
>>> because
>>>>> that is the way we have done it in the past. We should
always be
>>> accepting
>>>>> of doing things a new way that serves us better,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> John
>>>>> __________________
>>>>> John and Joanne Jones
>>>>> Registrar-Recorders, American Iris Society aisregistrar@irises.org
>>>>>
>>>>> John Jones, Chairman, Electronic Services Committee
>>>>>
aiselectronicsvcs@irises.org
>>>>>
>>>>> 35572 Linda Drive
>>>>> Fremont, CA
94536
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mar 13, 2013, at 10:13 AM, Ron
Killingsworth wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Michelle, you are correct, the board of AIS
usually brings up an idea,
>>>>>> talks
>>>>> about it, works out the kinks
and details, then someone makes a motion,
>>>>> someone seconds it, and then
the board votes. Technically, nothing is
>>>>> supposed to be discussed by the
board unless there is a seconded motion
>>>>> before the board. This cuts down
on a lot of talking and discussion and
>>>>> also stops discussion on an idea
of only one person. I agree that
>>>>> conducting a meeting by a strict
interpretation of Robert's Rules of
>>> Order
>>>>> can make it complicated.
>>>>> However, I really think that the board should at least follow the
>>>>>
general
>>>>> guidelines of Robert's Rules. The rules actually limit the
discussion of
>>> a
>>>>> motion -- i.e., once a person expresses his/her
opinion on the motion,
>>> that
>>>>> person can not again have the floor
until everyone has had a chance to
>>>>> express an opinion and unless it is
agreed by all to extend the
>>> discussion.
>>>>>> Again, this can get real
complicated. But, following the basic rules
>>>>>> of
>>>>> Roberts will help
the meetings to run smoother and cut out some of the
>>> two
>>>>> hour
discussions on a simple matter such as publishing the 2014
>>>>> calendar.
>>>>>> If the original motion maker and the seconder is willing to change the
>>>>> motion to something resembling my amendment, I am willing to withdraw my
>>>>> amendment (if the person who seconded it agrees) and to allow the
>>>>>
amended
>>> by
>>>>> the original people motion to proceed with discussion.
>>>>>> Ron
>>>>>> Director, AIS
>>>>>> Adv Editor
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3/13/2013
12:04, Michelle Snyder wrote:
>>>>>>> I only have the revised 10 edition and
it isn't the easiest to
>>>>>>> understand,
>>>>> at least not to this lay
person. Anyway, for as far back as I can
>>> remember,
>>>>> we have always
allowed the members to voice their opinion on an existing
>>>>> motion
regarding changes but we have also had the changes agreed to by
>>> the
>>>>>
original motion maker and the second, or the originators have agreed to
>>>>>
withdraw their motion. From what I see from Gary's email, it appears
>>> while
>>>>> the motion is pending it can be amended several times during the
>>>
discussion
>>>>> process. It appears this could drag out motions for a very
long time. If
>>>>> we accept the motion to amend as presented, that amended
motion would
>>> have
>>>>> to go through the discussion and voting period
(two weeks) and then the
>>>>> original motion, possibly as amended, would
have to go through the same
>>>>> process. This seems like it would stop any
motion from going forward in
>>>>> a
>>>>> reasonable time frame. Perhaps we
should discuss this further at the
>>>>> spring board meeting a!
>>>>> nd Jim
could contact our legal adviser and she could present a
>>>>> definitive
>>>>>
explanation of how this should work. Have we been doing our amendments
>>>>>
to
>>>>> pending motions wrong all along?
>>>>>>> During our Spring and Fall
board meetings motions have been amended a
>>>>>>> lot
>>>>> before being
voted on.
>>>>>>> Michelle
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
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