I'm just trying to save you some work, John. Thanks for the reminder about
sending our motions to you ahead of time. The Marketing and PR Committee
will try to do that.
Susan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aisdiscuss@aisboard.org [mailto:owner-aisdiscuss@aisboard.org]
On Behalf Of John Jones
Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 1:07 PM
To: aisdiscuss@aisboard.org
Subject: Re: [AISdiscuss] Motion to remove the operations manual from the
Wiki
HI Susan,
I have often asked to have those who know they are going to prepare motions
draft them in electronic form and send them to me so I don't have to type
them (in my slow error prone style) for the big screen. A few do, but a lot
of our motions are drafted on the spot.
Things do sometimes get out of control at the meetings, but a lot of times
to, people wait to be called on.
Thanks
John
__________________
John and Joanne Jones
Registrar-Recorders, American Iris Society aisregistrar@irises.org
John Jones, Chairman, Electronic Services Committee
aiselectronicsvcs@irises.org
35572 Linda Drive
Fremont, CA 94536
On Mar 14, 2013, at 8:48 AM, Susan Grigg wrote:
I agree in part with Gary and with John; however, it would be to the
Board's advantage if committees worked so well that motions that
needed to be brought to the Board from a committee were prepared ahead
of time, presented with the committee report, and any necessary
amendments done then. Does it just involve too much typing or are our
committees not functioning well?
Why can't we at least raise hands to be recognized by the President
before we speak during the Board meeting? Discussions are dominated by
anyone who talks fast and loud.
Susan Grigg
"Where there is no law, but every man does what is right in his own
eyes, there is the least of real liberty."
Henry M. Robert
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aisdiscuss@aisboard.org
[mailto:owner-aisdiscuss@aisboard.org]
On Behalf Of gary white
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 3:16 PM
To: aisdiscuss@aisboard.org
Subject: Re: [AISdiscuss] Motion to remove the operations manual from
the Wiki
I agree with all that John has posted below concerning the way we
handle motions at our spring and fall board meetings. While it has
not been exactly by Robert's Rules of Order, it has usually worked
well in the board meeting situation, and sometimes there is a need for
considerable discussion on a particular topic and there may be several
of what Robert's Rules refers to as "friendly amendments" on an
abbreviated basis. These usually get to the same result as if we took
the much longer route and made multiple amendments, voted on the
motions to amend, then voted on the amended motions. The easiest way
out and still follow Robert's Rules is to make suggestions for
revision as the motion is being written, but before the President
announces the motion for discussion. After that, we may not be
strictly following RR, but as John indicates, it has worked well for us
when there are "friendly amendments".
But, it is not so easy to do this with electronic motions, especially
when there may be differing opinions and views on a motion. There is
not the same ability for all to review the motion and make suggestions
for revision before it is announced for discussion. There is, by
necessity, a prolonged discussion and voting time with electronic
motions, and there is not the same ability to expediently discuss and
compromise, etc as at a live board meeting.
Thanks,
Gary
--- On Wed, 3/13/13, John Jones <jijones@usjoneses.com> wrote:
From: John Jones <jijones@usjoneses.com>
Subject: Re: [AISdiscuss] Motion to remove the operations manual from
the Wiki
To: aisdiscuss@aisboard.org
Date: Wednesday, March 13, 2013, 1:08 PM
It is true that Article 10, Section 3 of the AIS By-Laws (4-04-11)
states:
"The parliamentary rules contained in the most recent edition of
Robert's Rules of Order shall be used in all meetings of the AIS to
cover questions not provided for in these bylaws."
We may have been playing a little "fast and loose" with Roberts Rules
(RRs) in the process of making and discussing motions, but I think
that what evolved over the last several years serves us pretty well.
The whole point of having motions displayed on the big screen and
modifying them as directed by the board was to help ensure that the
motion gets worded properly to effect the action that the board wants.
While this may engender a little more non-RRs discussion, I believe
that it saves time in that we don't have to vote to reject a motion
only to have it resubmitted in a revised manner, changed again etc.
None of use are exceptionally adept at constructing perfect motions
the first time and this provides a reasonable process for us to use.
Changes are accepted by the originator and seconder prior to a vote being
taken.
Certainly there are times when discussions drag on but most often they
proceed pretty quickly. There are lost of times when someone's comment
brings up an idea for someone that has already spoken and I think that
the often short period of open discussion we have used in the past
serves to bring us all to better conclusions. The AIS President
maintains control of the meeting and can end the discussion if needed
or a motion made to Call the Question
With the exception of one meeting (when I was in the hospital) I have
served as Motions Secretary at the pleasure of the Board since we
started doing this at the Fall 2004 Board meeting. While the process
is not strictly according to RRs, I think that it serves the intent
behind those rules in that we accomplish a lot in the period of time
that we use. certainly in the last 7-8 years we have have has
progressively shorter meetings while still getting the business done that
we need done.
I don't mean to imply that we should continue doing something just
because that is the way we have done it in the past. We should always
be accepting of doing things a new way that serves us better,
John
__________________
John and Joanne Jones
Registrar-Recorders, American Iris Society aisregistrar@irises.org
John Jones, Chairman, Electronic Services Committee
aiselectronicsvcs@irises.org
35572 Linda Drive
Fremont, CA 94536
On Mar 13, 2013, at 10:13 AM, Ron Killingsworth wrote:
Michelle, you are correct, the board of AIS usually brings up an
idea, talks
about it, works out the kinks and details, then someone makes a
motion, someone seconds it, and then the board votes. Technically,
nothing is supposed to be discussed by the board unless there is a
seconded motion before the board. This cuts down on a lot of talking
and discussion and also stops discussion on an idea of only one
person. I agree that conducting a meeting by a strict interpretation
of Robert's Rules of Order can make it complicated.
However, I really think that the board should at least follow the
general guidelines of Robert's Rules. The rules actually limit the
discussion of a motion -- i.e., once a person expresses his/her
opinion on the motion, that person can not again have the floor until
everyone has had a chance to express an opinion and unless it is agreed by
all to extend the discussion.
Again, this can get real complicated. But, following the basic rules
of
Roberts will help the meetings to run smoother and cut out some of the
two hour discussions on a simple matter such as publishing the 2014
calendar.
If the original motion maker and the seconder is willing to change
the
motion to something resembling my amendment, I am willing to withdraw
my amendment (if the person who seconded it agrees) and to allow the
amended by the original people motion to proceed with discussion.
Ron
Director, AIS
Adv Editor
On 3/13/2013 12:04, Michelle Snyder wrote:
I only have the revised 10 edition and it isn't the easiest to
understand,
at least not to this lay person. Anyway, for as far back as I can
remember, we have always allowed the members to voice their opinion on
an existing motion regarding changes but we have also had the changes
agreed to by the original motion maker and the second, or the originators
have agreed to
withdraw their motion. From what I see from Gary's email, it appears
while
the motion is pending it can be amended several times during the
discussion process. It appears this could drag out motions for a very
long time. If we accept the motion to amend as presented, that
amended motion would have to go through the discussion and voting
period (two weeks) and then the original motion, possibly as amended,
would have to go through the same process. This seems like it would
stop any motion from going forward in a reasonable time frame.
Perhaps we should discuss this further at the spring board meeting a!
nd Jim could contact our legal adviser and she could present a
definitive explanation of how this should work. Have we been doing our
amendments to pending motions wrong all along?
During our Spring and Fall board meetings motions have been amended
a lot
before being voted on.
Michelle
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