RE: Motion to remove the operations manual from the Wiki

["Susan Grigg" <irismom@nc.rr.com>]

I agree in part with Gary and with John; however, it would be to the Board's
advantage if committees worked so well that motions that needed to be
brought to the Board from a committee were prepared ahead of time, presented
with the committee report, and any necessary amendments done then. Does it
just involve too much typing or are our committees not functioning well? 

Why can't we at least raise hands to be recognized by the President before
we speak during the Board meeting? Discussions are dominated by anyone who
talks fast and loud. 

Susan Grigg

"Where there is no law, but every man does what is right in his own eyes,
there is the least of real liberty." 
Henry M. Robert

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aisdiscuss@aisboard.org [mailto:owner-aisdiscuss@aisboard.org]
On Behalf Of gary white
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 3:16 PM
To: aisdiscuss@aisboard.org
Subject: Re: [AISdiscuss] Motion to remove the operations manual from the
Wiki

I agree with all that John has posted below concerning the way we handle
motions at our spring and fall board meetings.  While it has not been
exactly by Robert's Rules of Order, it has usually worked well in the board
meeting situation, and sometimes there is a need for considerable discussion
on a particular topic and there may be several of what Robert's Rules refers
to as "friendly amendments" on an abbreviated basis.  These usually get to
the same result as if we took the much longer route and made multiple
amendments, voted on the motions to amend, then voted on the amended
motions.  The easiest way out and still follow Robert's Rules is to make
suggestions for revision as the motion is being written, but before the
President announces the motion for discussion.  After that, we may not be
strictly following RR, but as John indicates, it has worked well for us when
there are "friendly amendments". 

But, it is not so easy to do this with electronic motions, especially when
there may be differing opinions and views on a motion.  There is not the
same ability for all to review the motion and make suggestions for revision
before it is announced for discussion.  There is, by necessity, a prolonged
discussion and voting time with electronic motions, and there is not the
same ability to expediently discuss and compromise, etc as at a live board
meeting.
 
Thanks,
Gary

--- On Wed, 3/13/13, John Jones <jijones@usjoneses.com> wrote:


From: John Jones <jijones@usjoneses.com>
Subject: Re: [AISdiscuss] Motion to remove the operations manual from the
Wiki
To: aisdiscuss@aisboard.org
Date: Wednesday, March 13, 2013, 1:08 PM


It is true that Article 10, Section 3 of the AIS By-Laws  (4-04-11) states:
"The parliamentary rules contained in the most recent edition of Robert's
Rules of Order shall be used in all meetings of the AIS to cover questions
not provided for in these bylaws."

We may have been playing a little "fast and loose" with Roberts Rules (RRs)
in the process of making and discussing motions, but I think that what
evolved over the last several years serves us pretty well. The whole point
of having motions displayed on the big screen and modifying them as directed
by the board was to help ensure that the motion gets worded properly to
effect the action that the board wants. While this may engender a little
more non-RRs discussion, I believe that it saves time in that we don't have
to vote to reject a motion only to have it resubmitted in a revised manner,
changed again etc. None of use are exceptionally adept at constructing
perfect motions the first time and this provides a reasonable process for us
to use. Changes are accepted by the originator and seconder prior to a vote
being taken.

Certainly there are times when discussions drag on but most often they
proceed pretty quickly. There are lost of times when someone's comment
brings up an idea for someone that has already spoken and I think that the
often short period of open discussion we have used in the past serves to
bring us all to better conclusions. The AIS President maintains control of
the meeting and can end the discussion if needed or a motion made to Call
the Question

With the exception of one meeting (when I was in the hospital) I have served
as Motions Secretary at the pleasure of the Board since we started doing
this at the Fall 2004 Board meeting. While the process is not strictly
according to RRs, I think that it serves the intent behind those rules in
that we accomplish a lot in the period of time that we use. certainly in the
last 7-8 years we have have has progressively shorter meetings while still
getting the business done that we need done.

I don't mean to imply that we should continue doing something just because
that is the way we have done it in the past. We should always be accepting
of doing things a new way that serves us better,


John
__________________
John and Joanne Jones
Registrar-Recorders, American Iris Society aisregistrar@irises.org

John Jones, Chairman, Electronic Services Committee
aiselectronicsvcs@irises.org

35572 Linda Drive
Fremont, CA 94536





On Mar 13, 2013, at 10:13 AM, Ron Killingsworth wrote:

> Michelle, you are correct, the board of AIS usually brings up an idea, 
> talks
about it, works out the kinks and details, then someone makes a motion,
someone seconds it, and then the board votes. Technically, nothing is
supposed to be discussed by the board unless there is a seconded motion
before the board.  This cuts down on a lot of talking and discussion and
also stops discussion on an idea of only one person.  I agree that
conducting a meeting by a strict interpretation of Robert's Rules of Order
can make it complicated.
However, I really think that the board should at least follow the general
guidelines of Robert's Rules.  The rules actually limit the discussion of a
motion -- i.e., once a person expresses his/her opinion on the motion, that
person can not again have the floor until everyone has had a chance to
express an opinion and unless it is agreed by all to extend the discussion.
> Again, this can get real complicated.  But, following the basic rules 
> of
Roberts will help the meetings to run smoother and cut out some of the two
hour discussions on a simple matter such as publishing the 2014 calendar.
>
> If the original motion maker and the seconder is willing to change the
motion to something resembling my amendment, I am willing to withdraw my
amendment (if the person who seconded it agrees) and to allow the amended by
the original people motion to proceed with discussion.
>
> Ron
> Director, AIS
> Adv Editor
>
> On 3/13/2013 12:04, Michelle Snyder wrote:
>> I only have the revised 10 edition and it isn't the easiest to 
>> understand,
at least not to this lay person.  Anyway, for as far back as I can remember,
we have always allowed the members to voice their opinion on an existing
motion regarding changes but we have also had the changes agreed to by the
original motion maker and the second, or the originators have agreed to
withdraw their motion.   From what I see from Gary's email, it appears while
the motion is pending it can be amended several times during the discussion
process.  It appears this could drag out motions for a very long time.  If
we accept the motion to amend as presented, that amended motion would have
to go through the discussion and voting period (two weeks) and then the
original motion, possibly as amended, would have to go through the same
process.  This seems like it would stop any motion from going forward in a
reasonable time frame.  Perhaps we should discuss this further  at the
spring board meeting a!
nd Jim could contact our legal adviser and she could present a definitive
explanation of how this should work. Have we been doing our amendments to
pending motions wrong all along?
>>
>> During our Spring and Fall board meetings motions have been amended a 
>> lot
before being voted on.
>>
>> Michelle
>
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