Re: Motion to remove the operations manual from the Wiki

[gary white <in2iris@yahoo.com>]

I agree with all that John has posted below concerning the way we handle
motions at our spring and fall board meetings.  While it has not been exactly
by Robert's Rules of Order, it has usually worked well in the board meeting
situation, and sometimes there is a need for considerable discussion on a
particular topic and there may be several of what Robert's Rules refers to as
"friendly amendments" on an abbreviated basis.  These usually get to the same
result as if we took the much longer route and made multiple amendments, voted
on the motions to amend, then voted on the amended motions.  The easiest way
out and still follow Robert's Rules is to make suggestions for revision as the
motion is being written, but before the President announces the motion for
discussion.  After that, we may not be strictly following RR, but as John
indicates, it has worked well for us when there are "friendly amendments". 

But, it is not so easy to do this with electronic motions, especially when
there may be differing opinions and views on a motion.  There is not the same
ability for all to review the motion and make suggestions for revision before
it is announced for discussion.  There is, by necessity, a prolonged
discussion and voting time with electronic motions, and there is not the same
ability to expediently discuss and compromise, etc as at a live board
meeting.
 
Thanks,
Gary

--- On Wed, 3/13/13, John Jones <jijones@usjoneses.com> wrote:


From: John Jones <jijones@usjoneses.com>
Subject: Re: [AISdiscuss] Motion to remove the operations manual from the
Wiki
To: aisdiscuss@aisboard.org
Date: Wednesday, March 13, 2013, 1:08 PM


It is true that Article 10, Section 3 of the AIS By-Laws  (4-04-11) states:
"The parliamentary rules contained in the most recent edition of Robert's
Rules of Order shall be used in all meetings of the AIS to cover questions not
provided for in these bylaws."

We may have been playing a little "fast and loose" with Roberts Rules (RRs) in
the process of making and discussing motions, but I think that what evolved
over the last several years serves us pretty well. The whole point of having
motions displayed on the big screen and modifying them as directed by the
board was to help ensure that the motion gets worded properly to effect the
action that the board wants. While this may engender a little more non-RRs
discussion, I believe that it saves time in that we don't have to vote to
reject a motion only to have it resubmitted in a revised manner, changed again
etc. None of use are exceptionally adept at constructing perfect motions the
first time and this provides a reasonable process for us to use. Changes are
accepted by the originator and seconder prior to a vote being taken.

Certainly there are times when discussions drag on but most often they proceed
pretty quickly. There are lost of times when someone's comment brings up an
idea for someone that has already spoken and I think that the often short
period of open discussion we have used in the past serves to bring us all to
better conclusions. The AIS President maintains control of the meeting and can
end the discussion if needed or a motion made to Call the Question

With the exception of one meeting (when I was in the hospital) I have served
as Motions Secretary at the pleasure of the Board since we started doing this
at the Fall 2004 Board meeting. While the process is not strictly according to
RRs, I think that it serves the intent behind those rules in that we
accomplish a lot in the period of time that we use. certainly in the last 7-8
years we have have has progressively shorter meetings while still getting the
business done that we need done.

I don't mean to imply that we should continue doing something just because
that is the way we have done it in the past. We should always be accepting of
doing things a new way that serves us better,


John
__________________
John and Joanne Jones
Registrar-Recorders, American Iris Society
aisregistrar@irises.org

John Jones, Chairman, Electronic Services Committee
aiselectronicsvcs@irises.org

35572 Linda Drive
Fremont, CA 94536





On Mar 13, 2013, at 10:13 AM, Ron Killingsworth wrote:

> Michelle, you are correct, the board of AIS usually brings up an idea, talks
about it, works out the kinks and details, then someone makes a motion,
someone seconds it, and then the board votes. Technically, nothing is supposed
to be discussed by the board unless there is a seconded motion before the
board.  This cuts down on a lot of talking and discussion and also stops
discussion on an idea of only one person.  I agree that conducting a meeting
by a strict interpretation of Robert's Rules of Order can make it complicated.
However, I really think that the board should at least follow the general
guidelines of Robert's Rules.  The rules actually limit the discussion of a
motion -- i.e., once a person expresses his/her opinion on the motion, that
person can not again have the floor until everyone has had a chance to express
an opinion and unless it is agreed by all to extend the discussion.
> Again, this can get real complicated.  But, following the basic rules of
Roberts will help the meetings to run smoother and cut out some of the two
hour discussions on a simple matter such as publishing the 2014 calendar.
>
> If the original motion maker and the seconder is willing to change the
motion to something resembling my amendment, I am willing to withdraw my
amendment (if the person who seconded it agrees) and to allow the amended by
the original people motion to proceed with discussion.
>
> Ron
> Director, AIS
> Adv Editor
>
> On 3/13/2013 12:04, Michelle Snyder wrote:
>> I only have the revised 10 edition and it isn't the easiest to understand,
at least not to this lay person.  Anyway, for as far back as I can remember,
we have always allowed the members to voice their opinion on an existing
motion regarding changes but we have also had the changes agreed to by the
original motion maker and the second, or the originators have agreed to
withdraw their motion.   From what I see from Gary's email, it appears while
the motion is pending it can be amended several times during the discussion
process.  It appears this could drag out motions for a very long time.  If we
accept the motion to amend as presented, that amended motion would have to go
through the discussion and voting period (two weeks) and then the original
motion, possibly as amended, would have to go through the same process.  This
seems like it would stop any motion from going forward in a reasonable time
frame.  Perhaps we should discuss this further
 at the spring board meeting a!
nd Jim could contact our legal adviser and she could present a definitive
explanation of how this should work. Have we been doing our amendments to
pending motions wrong all along?
>>
>> During our Spring and Fall board meetings motions have been amended a lot
before being voted on.
>>
>> Michelle
>
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