Re: Motion to remove the operations manual from the Wiki

[John Jones <jijones@usjoneses.com>]

I certainly agree that managing a motion via email is a more difficult issue and perhaps we should bring the issue up at the Board meeting. I would hope that we would look for a way to manage the need to modify motions without over-burdening ourselves with structure.

The enacting motion for AISDiscuss says (in part):

"The purpose of this list will be to discuss AIS business, make motions, seconds and amendments
to motions, but NOT FOR VOTING on said motions."

So it was our intent to be able to make amendments without subjecting the issue to a vote. It has been our process in the past both in meetings and in AISDiscuss to ask the originator of a motion to accept an amendment without a vote on the amendment. Maybe a simple question from the person seeking an amendment "Would you be willing to change the motion to read..." would suffice to manage this problem. No it is not according to Roberts Rules of Order, but it has worked for us and certainly does not obstruct the intent of RRoO to manage a voting process.

Thanks

John
__________________ 
John and Joanne Jones
Registrar-Recorders, American Iris Society
aisregistrar@irises.org

John Jones, Chairman, Electronic Services Committee
aiselectronicsvcs@irises.org

35572 Linda Drive
Fremont, CA 94536





On Mar 13, 2013, at 12:15 PM, gary white wrote:

> 
> But, it is not so easy to do this with electronic motions, especially when
> there may be differing opinions and views on a motion.  There is not the same
> ability for all to review the motion and make suggestions for revision before
> it is announced for discussion.  There is, by necessity, a prolonged
> discussion and voting time with electronic motions, and there is not the same
> ability to expediently discuss and compromise, etc as at a live board
> meeting.
> 
> Thanks,
> Gary
> 
> --- On Wed, 3/13/13, John Jones <jijones@usjoneses.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> From: John Jones <jijones@usjoneses.com>
> Subject: Re: [AISdiscuss] Motion to remove the operations manual from the
> Wiki
> To: aisdiscuss@aisboard.org
> Date: Wednesday, March 13, 2013, 1:08 PM
> 
> 
> It is true that Article 10, Section 3 of the AIS By-Laws  (4-04-11) states:
> "The parliamentary rules contained in the most recent edition of Robert's
> Rules of Order shall be used in all meetings of the AIS to cover questions not
> provided for in these bylaws."
> 
> We may have been playing a little "fast and loose" with Roberts Rules (RRs) in
> the process of making and discussing motions, but I think that what evolved
> over the last several years serves us pretty well. The whole point of having
> motions displayed on the big screen and modifying them as directed by the
> board was to help ensure that the motion gets worded properly to effect the
> action that the board wants. While this may engender a little more non-RRs
> discussion, I believe that it saves time in that we don't have to vote to
> reject a motion only to have it resubmitted in a revised manner, changed again
> etc. None of use are exceptionally adept at constructing perfect motions the
> first time and this provides a reasonable process for us to use. Changes are
> accepted by the originator and seconder prior to a vote being taken.
> 
> Certainly there are times when discussions drag on but most often they proceed
> pretty quickly. There are lost of times when someone's comment brings up an
> idea for someone that has already spoken and I think that the often short
> period of open discussion we have used in the past serves to bring us all to
> better conclusions. The AIS President maintains control of the meeting and can
> end the discussion if needed or a motion made to Call the Question
> 
> With the exception of one meeting (when I was in the hospital) I have served
> as Motions Secretary at the pleasure of the Board since we started doing this
> at the Fall 2004 Board meeting. While the process is not strictly according to
> RRs, I think that it serves the intent behind those rules in that we
> accomplish a lot in the period of time that we use. certainly in the last 7-8
> years we have have has progressively shorter meetings while still getting the
> business done that we need done.
> 
> I don't mean to imply that we should continue doing something just because
> that is the way we have done it in the past. We should always be accepting of
> doing things a new way that serves us better,
> 
> 
> John
> __________________
> John and Joanne Jones
> Registrar-Recorders, American Iris Society
> aisregistrar@irises.org
> 
> John Jones, Chairman, Electronic Services Committee
> aiselectronicsvcs@irises.org
> 
> 35572 Linda Drive
> Fremont, CA 94536
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Mar 13, 2013, at 10:13 AM, Ron Killingsworth wrote:
> 
>> Michelle, you are correct, the board of AIS usually brings up an idea, talks
> about it, works out the kinks and details, then someone makes a motion,
> someone seconds it, and then the board votes. Technically, nothing is supposed
> to be discussed by the board unless there is a seconded motion before the
> board.  This cuts down on a lot of talking and discussion and also stops
> discussion on an idea of only one person.  I agree that conducting a meeting
> by a strict interpretation of Robert's Rules of Order can make it complicated.
> However, I really think that the board should at least follow the general
> guidelines of Robert's Rules.  The rules actually limit the discussion of a
> motion -- i.e., once a person expresses his/her opinion on the motion, that
> person can not again have the floor until everyone has had a chance to express
> an opinion and unless it is agreed by all to extend the discussion.
>> Again, this can get real complicated.  But, following the basic rules of
> Roberts will help the meetings to run smoother and cut out some of the two
> hour discussions on a simple matter such as publishing the 2014 calendar.
>> 
>> If the original motion maker and the seconder is willing to change the
> motion to something resembling my amendment, I am willing to withdraw my
> amendment (if the person who seconded it agrees) and to allow the amended by
> the original people motion to proceed with discussion.
>> 
>> Ron
>> Director, AIS
>> Adv Editor
>> 
>> On 3/13/2013 12:04, Michelle Snyder wrote:
>>> I only have the revised 10 edition and it isn't the easiest to understand,
> at least not to this lay person.  Anyway, for as far back as I can remember,
> we have always allowed the members to voice their opinion on an existing
> motion regarding changes but we have also had the changes agreed to by the
> original motion maker and the second, or the originators have agreed to
> withdraw their motion.   From what I see from Gary's email, it appears while
> the motion is pending it can be amended several times during the discussion
> process.  It appears this could drag out motions for a very long time.  If we
> accept the motion to amend as presented, that amended motion would have to go
> through the discussion and voting period (two weeks) and then the original
> motion, possibly as amended, would have to go through the same process.  This
> seems like it would stop any motion from going forward in a reasonable time
> frame.  Perhaps we should discuss this further
> at the spring board meeting a!
> nd Jim could contact our legal adviser and she could present a definitive
> explanation of how this should work. Have we been doing our amendments to
> pending motions wrong all along?
>>> 
>>> During our Spring and Fall board meetings motions have been amended a lot
> before being voted on.
>>> 
>>> Michelle
>> 
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To sign-off this list, send email to the AIS Secretary
>> <aissecretary@irises.org>
>> The archives for AISDiscuss are at:
>> http://www.aisboard.org/lists/aisdiscuss/
>> 
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To sign-off this list, send email to the AIS Secretary
> <aissecretary@irises.org>
> The archives for AISDiscuss are at:
> http://www.aisboard.org/lists/aisdiscuss/
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To sign-off this list, send email to the AIS Secretary
> <aissecretary@irises.org>
> The archives for AISDiscuss are at:
> http://www.aisboard.org/lists/aisdiscuss/
> 


---------------------------------------------------------------------
To sign-off this list, send email to the AIS Secretary
<aissecretary@irises.org>
The archives for AISDiscuss are at:
http://www.aisboard.org/lists/aisdiscuss/