RE: Motion to remove the operations manual from the Wiki

["Susan Grigg" <irismom@nc.rr.com>]

I'm just trying to save you some work, John. Thanks for the reminder about
sending our motions to you ahead of time. The Marketing and PR Committee
will try to do that.
Susan 

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aisdiscuss@aisboard.org [mailto:owner-aisdiscuss@aisboard.org]
On Behalf Of John Jones
Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 1:07 PM
To: aisdiscuss@aisboard.org
Subject: Re: [AISdiscuss] Motion to remove the operations manual from the
Wiki

HI Susan,

I have often asked to have those who know they are going to prepare motions
draft them in electronic form and send them to me so I don't have to type
them (in my slow error prone style) for the big screen. A few do, but a lot
of our motions are drafted on the spot.

Things do sometimes get out of control at the meetings, but a lot of times
to, people wait to be called on.

Thanks

John
__________________
John and Joanne Jones
Registrar-Recorders, American Iris Society aisregistrar@irises.org

John Jones, Chairman, Electronic Services Committee
aiselectronicsvcs@irises.org

35572 Linda Drive
Fremont, CA 94536





On Mar 14, 2013, at 8:48 AM, Susan Grigg wrote:

> I agree in part with Gary and with John; however, it would be to the 
> Board's advantage if committees worked so well that motions that 
> needed to be brought to the Board from a committee were prepared ahead 
> of time, presented with the committee report, and any necessary 
> amendments done then. Does it just involve too much typing or are our
committees not functioning well?
> 
> Why can't we at least raise hands to be recognized by the President 
> before we speak during the Board meeting? Discussions are dominated by 
> anyone who talks fast and loud.
> 
> Susan Grigg
> 
> "Where there is no law, but every man does what is right in his own 
> eyes, there is the least of real liberty."
> Henry M. Robert
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aisdiscuss@aisboard.org 
> [mailto:owner-aisdiscuss@aisboard.org]
> On Behalf Of gary white
> Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 3:16 PM
> To: aisdiscuss@aisboard.org
> Subject: Re: [AISdiscuss] Motion to remove the operations manual from 
> the Wiki
> 
> I agree with all that John has posted below concerning the way we 
> handle motions at our spring and fall board meetings.  While it has 
> not been exactly by Robert's Rules of Order, it has usually worked 
> well in the board meeting situation, and sometimes there is a need for 
> considerable discussion on a particular topic and there may be several 
> of what Robert's Rules refers to as "friendly amendments" on an 
> abbreviated basis.  These usually get to the same result as if we took 
> the much longer route and made multiple amendments, voted on the 
> motions to amend, then voted on the amended motions.  The easiest way 
> out and still follow Robert's Rules is to make suggestions for 
> revision as the motion is being written, but before the President 
> announces the motion for discussion.  After that, we may not be 
> strictly following RR, but as John indicates, it has worked well for us
when there are "friendly amendments".
> 
> But, it is not so easy to do this with electronic motions, especially 
> when there may be differing opinions and views on a motion.  There is 
> not the same ability for all to review the motion and make suggestions 
> for revision before it is announced for discussion.  There is, by 
> necessity, a prolonged discussion and voting time with electronic 
> motions, and there is not the same ability to expediently discuss and 
> compromise, etc as at a live board meeting.
> 
> Thanks,
> Gary
> 
> --- On Wed, 3/13/13, John Jones <jijones@usjoneses.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> From: John Jones <jijones@usjoneses.com>
> Subject: Re: [AISdiscuss] Motion to remove the operations manual from 
> the Wiki
> To: aisdiscuss@aisboard.org
> Date: Wednesday, March 13, 2013, 1:08 PM
> 
> 
> It is true that Article 10, Section 3 of the AIS By-Laws  (4-04-11)
states:
> "The parliamentary rules contained in the most recent edition of 
> Robert's Rules of Order shall be used in all meetings of the AIS to 
> cover questions not provided for in these bylaws."
> 
> We may have been playing a little "fast and loose" with Roberts Rules 
> (RRs) in the process of making and discussing motions, but I think 
> that what evolved over the last several years serves us pretty well. 
> The whole point of having motions displayed on the big screen and 
> modifying them as directed by the board was to help ensure that the 
> motion gets worded properly to effect the action that the board wants. 
> While this may engender a little more non-RRs discussion, I believe 
> that it saves time in that we don't have to vote to reject a motion 
> only to have it resubmitted in a revised manner, changed again etc. 
> None of use are exceptionally adept at constructing perfect motions 
> the first time and this provides a reasonable process for us to use. 
> Changes are accepted by the originator and seconder prior to a vote being
taken.
> 
> Certainly there are times when discussions drag on but most often they 
> proceed pretty quickly. There are lost of times when someone's comment 
> brings up an idea for someone that has already spoken and I think that 
> the often short period of open discussion we have used in the past 
> serves to bring us all to better conclusions. The AIS President 
> maintains control of the meeting and can end the discussion if needed 
> or a motion made to Call the Question
> 
> With the exception of one meeting (when I was in the hospital) I have 
> served as Motions Secretary at the pleasure of the Board since we 
> started doing this at the Fall 2004 Board meeting. While the process 
> is not strictly according to RRs, I think that it serves the intent 
> behind those rules in that we accomplish a lot in the period of time 
> that we use. certainly in the last 7-8 years we have have has 
> progressively shorter meetings while still getting the business done that
we need done.
> 
> I don't mean to imply that we should continue doing something just 
> because that is the way we have done it in the past. We should always 
> be accepting of doing things a new way that serves us better,
> 
> 
> John
> __________________
> John and Joanne Jones
> Registrar-Recorders, American Iris Society aisregistrar@irises.org
> 
> John Jones, Chairman, Electronic Services Committee 
> aiselectronicsvcs@irises.org
> 
> 35572 Linda Drive
> Fremont, CA 94536
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Mar 13, 2013, at 10:13 AM, Ron Killingsworth wrote:
> 
>> Michelle, you are correct, the board of AIS usually brings up an 
>> idea, talks
> about it, works out the kinks and details, then someone makes a 
> motion, someone seconds it, and then the board votes. Technically, 
> nothing is supposed to be discussed by the board unless there is a 
> seconded motion before the board.  This cuts down on a lot of talking 
> and discussion and also stops discussion on an idea of only one 
> person.  I agree that conducting a meeting by a strict interpretation 
> of Robert's Rules of Order can make it complicated.
> However, I really think that the board should at least follow the 
> general guidelines of Robert's Rules.  The rules actually limit the 
> discussion of a motion -- i.e., once a person expresses his/her 
> opinion on the motion, that person can not again have the floor until 
> everyone has had a chance to express an opinion and unless it is agreed by
all to extend the discussion.
>> Again, this can get real complicated.  But, following the basic rules 
>> of
> Roberts will help the meetings to run smoother and cut out some of the 
> two hour discussions on a simple matter such as publishing the 2014
calendar.
>> 
>> If the original motion maker and the seconder is willing to change 
>> the
> motion to something resembling my amendment, I am willing to withdraw 
> my amendment (if the person who seconded it agrees) and to allow the 
> amended by the original people motion to proceed with discussion.
>> 
>> Ron
>> Director, AIS
>> Adv Editor
>> 
>> On 3/13/2013 12:04, Michelle Snyder wrote:
>>> I only have the revised 10 edition and it isn't the easiest to 
>>> understand,
> at least not to this lay person.  Anyway, for as far back as I can 
> remember, we have always allowed the members to voice their opinion on 
> an existing motion regarding changes but we have also had the changes 
> agreed to by the original motion maker and the second, or the originators
have agreed to
> withdraw their motion.   From what I see from Gary's email, it appears
while
> the motion is pending it can be amended several times during the 
> discussion process.  It appears this could drag out motions for a very 
> long time.  If we accept the motion to amend as presented, that 
> amended motion would have to go through the discussion and voting 
> period (two weeks) and then the original motion, possibly as amended, 
> would have to go through the same process.  This seems like it would 
> stop any motion from going forward in a reasonable time frame.  
> Perhaps we should discuss this further  at the spring board meeting a!
> nd Jim could contact our legal adviser and she could present a 
> definitive explanation of how this should work. Have we been doing our 
> amendments to pending motions wrong all along?
>>> 
>>> During our Spring and Fall board meetings motions have been amended 
>>> a lot
> before being voted on.
>>> 
>>> Michelle
>> 
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> 
> 
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