Re: Motion regarding foreign registrations

[John Jones <jijones@usjoneses.com>]

My comments below:

On Aug 20, 2011, at 7:05 AM, andi rivarola wrote:

> Hey John, thanks for the explanation. I find your points very detailed and
> more clear for me to understand being a newbie.
> 
> I have some questions, but the Board may have already explored them.
> 
> AIS seems to need to clarify its own role on this. I understand that we need
> to cover our own expenses, but as we have taken the role of World registrar
> for irises that many years ago, we need to see each country, and each
> hybridizer in other countries as a brother/sister that speaks another
> language, that's all. Would we raise prices on our own? I mean, they are
> already paying a fee.

The fee for registration used to be $7.50 for North American hybridizers. in Dec of 2004 the fee for North American Hybridizers was raised to $10.00. In July 2010 the Registration fee for North American Hybridizers to $15.00. All this time foreign hybridizers were not paying any fee to the AIS, only if at all , to their country Associate Registrars. I do not have historical data on what the individual country Iris Societies were charging for registrations.

> 
> A- So, my first question is: do we want -- to continue -- to be the world
> registrar for all irises? And if so, are we being impartial by -- basically
> -- raising the price for foreign registrations only.

The Board decided that the had to bring the fees paid by foreign registrants to the AIS to a par with what North American registrants paid.

> 
> B- Instead or raising prices, which will end up costing the little guy/gal
> everywhere more to register, and discourage registration (a main goal to our
> worldwide role) couldn't funds be raised in a different way? Could we find a
> sponsor to cover registration costs? I mean, since we don't suppose to make
> a profit, it would be nice to ask someone (a company) that can afford it It
> would worth the effort to try to find someone. Discover a new source of
> income!

I would support an effort by someone (else) to find a source that would be willing to fund the registration process if a source could be found that would continue to fund the cost well into the future. We could not have a "now you have to pay, now you don't " seesaw for registration fees. It would be an administrative nightmare.

> 
> C- Even though we were/are consulting with foreign registrars, who we are
> really affecting are the foreign hybridizers. Aren't we? Should we consult
> with them? Again, shouldn't we then treat them as a U.S. hybridizer (that
> speaks are foreign language) and think of them equally? I mean, they are
> already paying a fee.

I believe that my motion goes a long way towards every registrant having to pay the same fee ($15.00) regardless of country. The system will never be perfect.

> 
> D- The possible perception at foreign countries that we're treating them
> differently because they need to pay more in order to register their iris
> create a descent by foreign hybridizers? Have we thoroughly thought of the
> the consequences if this was they case?

I think that my motion will be considered fair by most foreign registrants.

John

> 
> Again, you may have all already discussed these points, but they came to
> mind.
> 
> Thanks for taking the time to read these.
> 
> Andi Rivarola
> PS: Writing while enjoying a beautiful raising sun at Yellowstone National
> Park, WY.
> 
> 
> On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 11:44 PM, John Jones <jijones@usjoneses.com> wrote:
> 
>> I think we need to clarify some issues and put some things in perspective.
>> 
>> 
>> 1: While AIS was not receiving any money for registrations from foreign
>> hybridizers, that does not mean that they were not paying a fee to register
>> their iris (to their Country Associate Registrar). In fact, almost all
>> foreign registrants paid a fee, as enumerated on one of my previous posts.
>> 
>> 
>> 2: AIS is not supposed to make a profit by charging for registrations. The
>> ICRA allows Registrars to charge a fee to COVER COSTS. It was not the intent
>> of the original motion to charge foreign registrants a fee in  order to
>> "balance the AIS Books."
>> 
>> 3: Because we were not charging foreign registrants, we were in a deficit
>> condition based of current expenses, specifically:
>> 
>> Registrar's salary (annual)  $9600.00
>> Approximate costs for shipping, postage, paper, toner, and other office
>> costs:  $900.00
>> 5 year depreciation schedule for Registrar's computer system:  $1300.00
>> (aprox)
>> 
>> Total annual costs:  $11,800
>> 
>> Assuming for the point of discussion that there are 600 registrations
>> annually from North America and 700 from other countries.
>> 
>> If the AIS were to receive $15.00 from each registrant that would generate
>> $19,500 far exceeding out costs. And before anyone jumps in and says "yes
>> but we have to print the R&Is and Checklists", that is true but we make a
>> profit on that as well.
>> 
>> Remember also that before the Board decided to charge foreign registrants
>> we would only receive 600 X $15.00 or $9000.00 (less than our current costs.
>> 
>> 4: The real point of my current motion is to recognize that foreign
>> registrants, under the current fee structure, would be paying more (in
>> almost every case) than North American registrants (the AIS $15.00 AIS fee
>> plus their country Associate fee). My current motion is an attempt to
>> mitigate that issue.
>> 
>> The foreign Iris Societies set the fee that the Associate Registrars
>> charge. Whether that fee goes to the Associate Registrar or not is their
>> business, not ours. Remember that the AIS pays their Registrar  (me) a fee
>> supported by the fee charged to registrants.
>> 
>> As i detailed in a previous post, the Associate Registrars provide a
>> valuable service to me, making my job much easier. (Note that that is a
>> relative statement. The job of Registrar is still very difficult. Even
>> dealing with some of the North American registrants is a challenge...)
>> 
>> Before we worry too much about giving away $5.00 per foreign registration,
>> remember that 45 days ago we weren't getting anything from them. We need to
>> try to be as fair and even handed to everyone as we can. We also need to
>> have a uniform approach to all foreign countries. We can't  have different
>> standards for different countries or people.
>> 
>> In receiving $10.00 per foreign registration we will generate an additional
>> estimated $7000.00 for a total registrations revenue of $16,000 which is
>> still in excess (significantly) of our estimated costs. Even if we adopt my
>> "fee sharing" approach, the fee foreign registrants pay will go up from what
>> they are accustomed  to paying and I believe that additional fee will cause
>> the number of foreign registrations to diminish to some degree, but
>> obviously I have no specific data to support that.
>> 
>> Also if we don't allocate $5.00 of the $15.00 dollar registration fee to
>> the associate registrar (thus reducing the total cost to the registrant) we
>> may find that foreign registrants just stop registering irises (which is the
>> antithesis of our purpose). There is also some concern that some other
>> country may petition the ICRA to become the World Wide Registrar for
>> non-Bulbous Irises and the all North American registrants would end up
>> sending registration requests to some foreign country just as a result of
>> our raising the fee at all.
>> 
>> So far I have had two responses to a recent email to all foreign Associate
>> Registrars describing my revenue sharing approach:
>> 
>> Jean Peyrard of France: "I agree it's a good solution, I transfer to the
>> French Society",
>> 
>> Sergey Loktev of Russia: "I consider the suggestion logical".
>> 
>> 
>> As to Susan's questions, my comments are interspersed below.
>> 
>> John
>> 
>> On Aug 19, 2011, at 12:10 PM, Susan Boyce wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>>   Now that I am home from work, I can finally sit down and put my
>> thoughts
>>> into words about this.
>>> In my opinion, I would like to find out some more information before I
>> would
>>> vote to send $5.00 to the associate registrars in other countries.
>>> 1.   Does the money the foreign associates receive go into their own
>> pockets,
>>> or does it go into their respective iris societies coiffers.
>> 
>> answered above
>> 
>>> I would really
>>> hate to see us send an extra $5.00 just to end up in someone's pocket.
>> 
>> Remember that AIS pays me to be Registrar from registration revenues.
>> Foreign Associate Registrars are performing a service at the behest of their
>> respective Iris Societies. They deserve, under the rules of the ICRA, to
>> charge a fee to mitigate their costs. But because they do and because we
>> have decided to charge foreign registrants a fee, the registrants are faced
>> with paying a double fee. That is not particularly fair and it is what I am
>> attempting to mitigate (among other reasons) with my motion. To as great an
>> extent as possible, we should create an environment where by all registrants
>> face the same fee structure. Granted given all the various economies and
>> specific country variations, we will never have perfect uniformity, but we
>> can do our best.
>> 
>>> 2.   What exactly does the foreign associates do?
>> 
>> Described in an other email
>> 
>>> Do they just forward the
>>> registrations onto us?  Do they translate effectively and/or correctly
>> the
>>> registrations before sending them to us?
>> 
>> Some translate more effectively than others, but certainly better than I
>> could. Plus they add experience as to how to describe an iris clone and
>> correct/clarify the registrations.
>> 
>>>  All of these questions should be answered before we should vote on any
>>> changes.
>>> Susan Boyce
>>> 
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> 
>>>> Subject: Re: [AISdiscuss] Motion regarding foreign registrations
>>>> From: jijones@usjoneses.com
>>>> Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 15:55:46 -0700
>>>> To: aisdiscuss@aisboard.org
>>>> 
>>>> The whole point of having a discussion after a motion is made is to get
>>> thoughts on the table and vet the subject.
>>>> 
>>>> HOW ABOUT SPEAKING UP!
>>>> 
>>>> John
>>>> 
>>>> On Aug 16, 2011, at 12:47 PM, Michelle Snyder wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> John Jones moved and Cheryl Deaton seconded the below motion. As such
>> it
>>> is open for discussion.
>>>>> 
>>>>> "That each foreign registrant pay a fee of USD$15.00 (or its equivalent
>> in
>>> the country currency) per iris registration or iris name reservation to
>> the
>>> country Associate Registrar. That the country Associate Registrar keep
>>> USD$5.00 (or its equivalent in the country currency) per iris
>> registration or
>>> iris name reservation and pay the AIS USD$10.00 per iris registration or
>> iris
>>> name reservation, such payments to the AIS to be made via a PayPal system
>> or
>>> such other arrangements as may be enumerated by the AIS
>> Registrar-Recorder for
>>> his convenience. All payments to the AIS registrar to be made in USD. The
>> AIS
>>> respectfully requests, but does not require, the country Associate
>> Registrars
>>> to accept the USD$5.00 stipend as full payment for their services as
>> Associate
>>> Register in managing iris registrations and iris name reservations. That
>> the
>>> services of the country Associate Registrar include, but may not be
>> limited
>>> to, iris name checking against the irisregister.com database, !
>>>> translation (as appropriate), transliteration (as appropriate), and
>>> description review ad editing.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Michelle Snyder,
>>>>> AIS Secretary
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>> 
>> __________________
>> John I Jones
>> Registrar-Recorder
>> American Iris Society
>> aisregistrar@irises.org
>> 
>> 
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__________________ 
John I Jones
Registrar-Recorder
American Iris Society
aisregistrar@irises.org


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