RE: Approval of corrected minutes

[Susan Boyce <100T@rewrite.aisboard.org>]

Hi all,
   This will be a reply to both of Susan Grigg's emails.
   First, I do admit I make spelling and grammatical errors.  Everyone does.
We are all human.  We all make errors.  Companies and Corporations are run by
humans.  They do not try to hide their spelling and grammatical errors in
their minutes.  They have more important things to do than to go back and
correct every grammatical error after the fact.  I think that it is more
important to keep the fall board meeting minutes the way they are.  I am not
willing to bend or break Roberts Rules of Orders just in order to "window
dress" our minutes.
   Second, I do many times quote a chairman's report, verbatim, word for word,
as what they have said is perfect and cannot be worded any better.  To change
their wording would lessen the importance of what they are trying to convey to
the board.
Susan Boyce

> Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2014 20:57:55 -0400
> To: aisdiscuss@aisboard.org
> Subject: Re: [AISdiscuss] Approval of corrected minutes
> From: 101d@rewrite.aisboard.org
>
> My understanding of the minutes of a meeting is that only the motions
> are the actual words spoken. Minutes are a synopsis or condensing of the
> remarks or conversations at the meeting. A transcript would be a much
> longer document and contain every word spoken at the meeting. A court
> stenographer records every word spoken in the courtroom. In my
> experience as a Recording Secretary for the Region, my Affiliate,
> various clubs, and even as the Clerk of my church Session, I condensed
> reports and information so that the meaning was still accurate, but not
> verbatim. When I made a mistake in spelling or grammar, it was corrected
> before my minutes were published. Written reports by committee heads
> were handed to the Secretary to be filed, so that if I made an error in
> interpretation, it could be corrected.
> Susan Grigg
>
> On 6/25/2014 8:27 PM, cheryl deaton wrote:
> > As the Acting Recording Secretary for the St. Louis Convention, I know
how
> > difficult it is to record what is said accurately while listening to the
> > tapes, which is why others review the transcript before it is submitted
for
> > approval.  At each meeting there are two tape recorders in operation so
that
> > if one stops working, the other one will pick up the dialog.  I don't
think
> > anyone is disputing the need to correct typos, but to change the wording
as it
> > is recorded on the tapes just to make something "grammatically" correct
is
> > ludicrous.  If we don't say it "grammatically" correct, who really cares?
It
> > is recorded as it was said, as it is ON RECORD, which is why we keep the
> > tapes.  To change something that was said is really a falsification, and
do we
> > want to be known as an organization that does something like this, just
to
> > make it "grammatically" correct?
> > Cheryl Deaton
> >
> >> Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2014 16:45:25 -0400
> >> To: aisdiscuss@aisboard.org
> >> Subject: Re: [AISdiscuss] Approval of corrected minutes
> >> From: 101d@rewrite.aisboard.org
> >>
> >> We are all most grateful to have such a dedicated and unselfish person
> >> serving in this important capacity for AIS. All the motions are
> >> accurately recorded and the discussions, many times lengthy and
> >> involved, are condensed correctly. No one realizes how many hours of
> >> work this takes. Thank you, Susan, for this service to the Board and to
> >> AIS. You know the importance of having names spelled correctly and
> >> everything in order. Therefore, I'm sure you would not want any
> >> typographical errors to appear in the Board Minutes online or anywhere.
> >>
> >> This motion simply corrects the "minor" errors that for some reason
> >> escaped notice in prior readings. No one questions any information
> >> recorded in motions or recountings of reports or discussions. These
> >> corrections would continue the reputation for accuracy that our
> >> Recording Secretary has. The motion was made to assist with that
accuracy.
> >>
> >> Susan Grigg
> >>
> >>
> >> On 6/24/2014 2:54 PM, Susan Boyce wrote:
> >>> Hi all,
> >>>      Since I am the Recording Secretary, I feel that I must respond.
> >>>      First, since I AM the Recording Secretary, I take great pride in
the
> > work
> >>> that I do.  I have served AIS for 8 plus years in this position, and I
> > have
> >>> done the board meeting minutes for 17 Board meetings.  I strive to
> > honestly
> >>> and accurately report the conversations and events that take place at
the
> >>> board meetings.  When I work on the board meeting minutes, I follow the
> > tapes
> >>> very closely for what was said. I listen and re-listen to the tapes
> > several
> >>> times.  At times I have re-listened to specific parts of the tapes 8 or
9
> > or
> >>> even 10 times to insure that I accurately type what was said.   I was
> > taught
> >>> by Jeanne Clay Plank, who was a recording secretary for AIS for a
couple
> > of
> >>> years, and she was taught by Claire Barr, who was also the recording
> > secretary
> >>> for the AIS for several years.
> >>>      Second, after the Fall 2013 board meeting minutes were finished
and
> > proof
> >>> read by 3 different people, I sent them to Jim Morris, who had them in
> > his
> >>> possession for 5 weeks, reading them and re-reading them for
correctness
> > and
> >>> making corrections.  He returned them to me, I made the corrections and
> >>> submitted them to be posted on the AIS Website.  At the Spring 2014
Board
> >>> meeting, no corrections were made and Motion #3 "Approve Fall minutes
as
> >>> published on the website", was passed by all.  A couple of days after I
> > got
> >>> home from the convention, I was surprised to find an email from
President
> >>> Morris with these new additional corrections.  I have studied these new
> >>> additional corrections and I found only 2 minor typographical errors
which
> > did
> >>> not change the meaning of the word, or the meaning of a sentence.  The
> > other
> >>> corrections are what I consider "cosmetic corrections".
> >>>      Third, in Susan Grigg's quotation of Robert's Rules of Order, "If
the
> >>> existence of an error or material omission in the minutes becomes
> > reasonably
> >>> established after their approval -- even many years later -- the
minutes
> > can
> >>> then be corrected by means of the motion.....".   The 2013 Fall meeting
> >>> minutes did not have material omission errors, nor did they have any
> > errors of
> >>> information presented.  These "cosmetic corrections" do not meet the
> > criteria
> >>> set forth in Robert's Rules of Order for meeting minutes to be
corrected.
> >>> Therefore this motion under consideration is not valid under Robert's
> > Rules of
> >>> Order.
> >>> Susan Boyce
> >>> AIS Recording Secretary
> >>>
> >>>> Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2014 17:48:18 -0400
> >>>> To: aisdiscuss@aisboard.org
> >>>> Subject: Re: [AISdiscuss] Approval of correxted minutes
> >>>> From: 101d@rewrite.aisboard.org
> >>>>
> >>>> Please note that Robert's Rules of Order, Newly Revised does allow for
> >>>> correction of minutes, even years after their approval. See below:
> >>>>
> >>>> " If the existence of an error or material omission in the minutes
> >>>> becomes reasonably established after their approval -- even many years
> >>>> later -- the minutes can then be corrected by means of the motion
> >>>> to/Amend Something Previously Adopted/, which requires a two-thirds
> >>>> vote, or a majority vote with notice, or the vote of a majority of the
> >>>> entire membership, or unanimous consent."
> >>>>
> >>>> I believe that ". . .the vote of a majority of the entire membership.
.
> > ."
> >>> in this case means the entire membership of the Board, not the entire
> >>> membership of the AIS.
> >>>> If you will read carefully Secretary Snyder's attachment of 5/16/2014,
> >>>> the changes to the Minutes of November 2013 are for spelling and
grammar
> >>>> and will not change any actions taken by the AIS Board. These changes
> >>>> that President Morris and I hope to make are simply to present AIS in
> >>>> the best possible light online. Since these Minutes represent AIS to
the
> >>>> membership and to visitors to our website, why not have them reflect
the
> >>>> professionalism of our organization?
> >>>>
> >>>> If the Board prefers I will amend my motion to "That the Board Minutes
> >>>> of November 2013 approved in April 2014 be amended to reflect the
> >>>> corrections sent as an attachment by Secretary Snyder on 5/16/14."
> >>>>
> >>>> Susan Grigg
> >>>>
> >>>> On 6/23/2014 3:42 PM, Ron Killingsworth wrote:
> >>>>> Even if "Robert's Rules" states we can not amend the minutes once
they
> >>>>> have been officially approved, we can still do it, the rules are
> >>>>> simply guidelines.  They can be suspended at the will of the board.
> >>>>> It appears to be important that we get the minutes corrected and the
> >>>>> approved minutes were not entirely correct.  The secretary could
> >>>>> attach or append and explanation of necessary.
> >>>>> I'm for getting the record straight even if "Robert's Rules" frowns
on
> >>>>> such actions.
> >>>>> Ron Killingsworth, Director
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On 6/23/2014 14:24, Michelle Snyder wrote:
> >>>>>> Susan Grigg moved and Bob Pries seconded the below motion.   As such
> >>>>>> it is now out for discussion.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> "That the corrected minutes sent as an attachment by Secretary
Snyder
> >>>>>> on 5/16/2014 be approved."
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Michelle
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
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