Re: Wiki Motion

[Paul W Gossett <pwgossett@juno.com>]

Dennis,

I too am having a problem keeping up with the discussion.  I have also
been following all of the discussion.

I agree with you about why would we want to put the information on a DVD
when it is out of date.  AIS was doing such a thing with the AIS
Membership Listing years ago and dropped that because it was out of date
when it went to press.

I think the idea of putting the checklist on a cd is excellent.  I know
the Society For Louisiana Irises has a cd of their checklist and we use
at the Tulsa show.

I think we all use the checklist for various reasons and in different
ways.  I lookup varieties with the online checklist because I do not want
to thumb through all of the R&I's and checklists.  We use the printed
copies at our shows/sales and when we go to the garden.
In other words, having the information available several ways is not a
bad thing whether it be the online irisregister, AIS Wiki, the printed
copies, and maybe even a cd.  We just need to insure that all of the
information is accurate and is the dame information no matter what form
it comes in.

Thank you Dennis for sharing these links.......cool.


Looking at the Wiki, it looks as if most of the information has been cut
and pasted from the online irisregister.  AIS owns both and sharing
between the two would be good.  I can't see the online irisregister
losing many members, quite the contrary.  The more people you have
working the Wiki means they have to be getting their information from
some source and the easiest would be the irisregister.

I too am surprised we had only approved the Wkii in theory and not given
full voting approval for it.  I believe this will be a useful and
successful tool to be used by many non members as well as members around
the world.

I too would like to thank Susan for taking the time to listen to tapes,
reading through the minutes, and informing us.  Now it is up to us to
decide.  The project is already underway and it would be very sad to
think all of the people that have been involved so far has done all of
the work for nothing.

my penny worth.


Paul







On Thu, 21 Jan 2010 23:01:05 -0500 "R. Dennis Hager" <hager@aredee.com>
writes:
> I am trying very hard to keep up with this discussion and who is 
> saying what. Unfortunately, because of the formatting, it is 
> becoming increasingly difficult. 
> 
> I'm not sure who posed the question:
> 
> "Could the content of the Wiki be made available on DVD?"
> 
> Why would you WANT to put the content of the Wiki on a DVD? By the 
> time it is burned, it is out of date.
> 
> However, having the Checklist available on disk would be wonderful, 
> especially for shows that might be held in a place without an 
> internet connection. Fumbling through the R&I's while a show is 
> being staged or judged is an absolute pain.
> 
> It would be a good idea for anyone who wants to be a part of or to 
> understand this discussion as it relates to the ICRA to visit their 
> website at:
> 
> http://www.ishs.org/sci/icra.htm
> 
> There are several links at the bottom of the page that help to 
> explain what it is all about. I find their "copyright notice" 
> refreshing and "How to name a cultivar" enlightening. If you dig a 
> little further, you may get to the Directory of ICRA's at: 
> http://www.ishs.org/sci/icralist/icralist.htm
> From there, you can get to many plant society websites where you can 
> freely access checklists. 
> 
> I am not one to suggest that all organizations should make the same 
> decisions, but I do find it a bit peculiar that other plant 
> societies appear to be much healthier for having shared information 
> more freely.
> 
> Thank you for reading this far.
> 
> Dennis Hager
> 
>     
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: John I Jones 
>   To: aisdiscuss@aisboard.org 
>   Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 8:52 PM
>   Subject: Re: [AISdiscuss] Wiki Motion
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   On Jan 21, 2010, at 11:55 AM, Robert Pries wrote:
> 
> 
>     John wrote:
>     1. The inference in : 
>     "Since our contract as International registrar states that the 
> information be ?freely and universally available? we fulfill that 
> obligation of being an ICRA. Implicit in a wiki format is that 
> information will be continually added and formats can evolve."
> 
>     seems to be that the Iris Encyclopedia (IE) is a replacement for 
> the printed R&I and Check Lists. Is that the intent? Might even be a 
> good thing.
> 
>     I do not read any such inference. I do not understand the logic 
> that similar things have to replace each other. Radios did not 
> replace newspapers. TVs did not replace radios. We use all of them 
> but in different ways. But they all carry information. If anything 
> the information age demands we utilize many types of broadcast.
> 
> 
>   and the internet is replacing a lot of print media, to deny that 
> would be unrealistic.  I was merely asking what you intended, not 
> whether there was a rationale for it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>     Could the content of the Wiki be made available on DVD? With the 
> growing popularity of Notebook and Laptop computers a DVD could be 
> the solution to the"we need books for our show"  issue. It would 
> certainly make searching for cultivars easier.
> 
>     There could be spin-offs in various ways. Does anyone know 
> whether google has already digitalized our checklists in the 
> millions of books they are making available on the Kindle?
> 
>     2. There are ongoing updates (changes) the the information in 
> the Check List database (both the Registrars and Irisregister) that 
> are currently reflected in  Irisregister and the printed documents. 
> Is there a process envisioned for these updates to be reflected in 
> the IE.
> 
>     The very nature of a wiki is that it is constantly being 
> updated. It is possible that the Registrars and Registry could 
> utilize information from the wiki. Example the wiki will undoubtedly 
> have Awards of other countries included as the information becomes 
> available. The R & Is presently only list American Awards to my 
> knowledge.
>     Wikis are a way of organizing data, for example users could note 
> the date, and place an Iris is blooming. The result could be a 
> phenology showing what irises bloom at a certain time of year in a 
> given region or Given a certain time of year what is in bloom across 
> the country.
> 
> 
>   You miss the point I was making. An entry from the irisregister is 
> put in the IE at a given point in time. If that information is 
> subsequently updated, it has to somehow make its way into the IE. If 
> it is not then there are two conflicting references (obviously only 
> one correct one). Changes to the Registrar's data base are not 
> issued as change orders but as a new database.
> 
> 
> 
>     3. If the IE is to include all the information from the 
> Registrar's database, when will the information from the past two 
> years R&Is be made available? Shouldn't there be a process by which 
> the information is automatically loaded into the IE?
> 
>     That could make it less work for docents.
> 
> 
>   I think the board needs to address the first part of the question: 
> "when will the information from the past two years R&Is be made 
> available (for the IE)
> 
> 
>   John
> 
> 
> 
>     I am not conversant in ICRA and I don't like mincing words but 
> it seems to me that the phrase " freely and universally available" 
> in the context used does not mean at no cost and obviously we have 
> been charging for it. 
>     The phrase freely and universally available? was supplied to me 
> by Mike Lowe. Recovering cost of publication does not violate this 
> but profiting may. The Hemerocallis Society certainly believes it is 
> unethically for them to put their data behind a subscription site. I 
> differ to Mike on this opinion. My gut feeling is the IrisRegister 
> provides an add on to the data because of its search capabilities 
> and those are what one is paying for. So long as the data is 
> available in other ways it does not violate our ICRA.
> 
>     ----- Original Message -----
>     From: "John I Jones" <jijones@usjoneses.com>
>     To: aisdiscuss@aisboard.org
>     Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 11:42:58 AM GMT -05:00 
> US/Canada Eastern
>     Subject: Re: [AISdiscuss] Wiki Motion
> 
>     I would like some clarification please.
> 
> 
>     1. The inference in : 
>     "Since our contract as International registrar states that the 
> information be ?freely and universally available? we fulfill that 
> obligation of being an ICRA. Implicit in a wiki format is that 
> information will be continually added and formats can evolve."
> 
> 
>     seems to be that the Iris Encyclopedia (IE) is a replacement for 
> the printed R&I and Check Lists. Is that the intent? Might even be a 
> good thing. Could the content of the Wiki be made available on DVD? 
> With the growing popularity of Notebook and Laptop computers a DVD 
> could be the solution to the"we need books for our show"  issue. It 
> would certainly make searching for cultivars easier.
> 
> 
>     2. There are ongoing updates (changes) the the information in 
> the Check List database (both the Registrars and Irisregister) that 
> are currently reflected in  Irisregister and the printed documents. 
> Is there a process envisioned for these updates to be reflected in 
> the IE.
> 
> 
>     3. If the IE is to include all the information from the 
> Registrar's database, when will the information from the past two 
> years R&Is be made available? Shouldn't there be a process by which 
> the information is automatically loaded into the IE?
> 
> 
>     I am not conversant in ICRA and I don't like mincing words but 
> it seems to me that the phrase " freely and universally available" 
> in the context uesd does not mean at no cost and obviously we have 
> been charging for it. 
> 
> 
>     I do believe that we should properly vet this issue. I do not 
> mean to unnecessarily  slow things down, but I also believe we 
> should get it as "right" as we can.
> 
> 
>     John
> 
> 
>     On Jan 21, 2010, at 7:09 AM, Rita Gormley wrote:
> 
> 
>       I, Rita Gormley second the motion that  the AIS create the 
> Iris Encyclopedia; an information resource in a wiki format using 
> the registrations created by the International Registrar and be 
> viewable freely and universally.
>         ----- Original Message -----
>         From: Robert Pries
>         To: AISdiscuss
>         Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 9:53 AM
>         Subject: [AISdiscuss] Wiki Motion
> 
> 
>         Susan, congratulations on the baby, and thanks for the 
> research. It seems we have some work to do: I propose the following 
> motion:
> 
>         ??..That the AIS create the Iris Encyclopedia; an 
> information resource in a wiki format which allows registered users 
> to upload comments and photos. These pages are verified by 
> knowledgeable docents who create and or monitor pages for accuracy. 
> The rock on which this data is built is the registrations created by 
> the International Registrar. And that the Wki always be viewable 
> freely and universally???  
> 
>         Since our contract as International registrar states that 
> the information be ?freely and universally available? we fulfill 
> that obligation of being an ICRA. Implicit in a wiki format is that 
> information will be continually added and formats can evolve.
> 
>         Note: Winter is a prime time for inside work and if we go 
> two weeks to resolution it will mean progress on the wiki will be so 
> I formally request that Roy use his best judgement in shortening the 
> debate as appropriate. And of course if the motion is defeated the 
> wiki workers will know quickly that they need not invest their time 
> in a dead project.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

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