Re: Registration Images

[Robert Pries <robertpries@embarqmail.com>]

John seems determined that I answer some of his questions so here goes;

As we both said Mike and Anne get somewhere between 1 and 4% of registrations with images. Yes that is a low number, but what would you expect when as they say they do not ask for them. I believe that is the point of this motion. The point I was making is that they already have dealt with the possibility.

Mike shared with me that there have been instances where a photo indicated that the hybridizer needed to adjust his submitted written description. I would say that is helpful. 

It seems to me that all the issues of technology are incidental to making a decision as to whether to do something. It is easy to never try because we do not know how. Instead I would rather we commit to trying and figure out the how as we begin.

I believe John is asking the wrong question when he asks how will these images be used. I could write pages on how we could use them at present, and how they might be used in the future. I would hope that everyone could think of many ways they could be beneficial. And they will certainly be abused also. 

To me the real question is why are our members going to Davebs Garden to see pictures? Why is it that AIS is not fulfilling the needs of its membership? Why are we sending our members away instead of providing them what they are looking for. Collecting this type of data gives AIS greater authority and value. Failing to move forward just allows us to slip further behind. And yes we are compared by plants-people to other plant societies. Until we think of how to satisfy the wants and needs of our members we will not prosper.

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Jones" <jijones@usjoneses.com>
To: aisdiscuss@aisboard.org
Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2011 1:00:32 AM
Subject: Re: [AISdiscuss] Registration Images

The times I have spoken to Mike Lowe about how many pictures he receives,
he indicated 1% - 2%, maybe a minor point but indicating a very low
number.

I am not sure how "helpful" they were in that he also said that the only
thing he did with them was to staple them to the Registration form and
file them.

Mike has, over the time he has been Registrar, at times tried scanning
pictures and registration forms. He gave up because it took too much time
and required too much storage. Technology has changed and scanning is
easier and better but still requires a lot of time and massive storage
(scanning of handwriting has to be at a high resolution to be able to read
it).

Storage continues to get cheaper and cheaper. But with the geometries of
the storage cells getting into sub-nanometer range it also makes them more
susceptible to high energy particle damage. Sound like science fiction? It
is not.

The evolution of storage devices often makes previous technology
unavailable. Anybody seen a floppy disk recently, how about a zip drive?
Cartridge disks? I have lost significant data because there are no longer
mechanisms that can read the media.

About the only place that is safe to keep information and be assured that
you will continue to have access to the data is in the cloud (in the
internet).

The reason I say this is not to say we should not do this but to point out
that there are costs and risks associated with technology that are not
generally considered until it is too late.

I am not against requiring pictures for registrations. But no one has told
me how they are going to be used. There have been lots of comments about
how experienced irisarians would use the pictures. But what about those
who aren't (who also comprise a much larger population of iris growers.)


> Terry; Mike and Anne tell me they get images for about 2-4% of
> registrations. They have not asked for them, but they have been helpful.
> One of the goals for the suggested motion, is to help build the AIS
> library archives. The Iris Encyclopedia also treasure photos from the
> hybridizer. Since through time, in the Encyclopedia, when many photos are
> added to a particular cultivar page, if something has been radically
> photoshoped, it becomes evident. No system is perfect, The words a
> hybridizer uses may not be acurate in the description, but we still write
> descriptions. As we all adjust to new media, we all become more
> sophisticated. I wish I could say the Iris Encyclopedia was the first of
> its kind. But the Daylily Society, the Daffodil Society, and others have
> all created databases with images and these use registration pictures that
> they require. Since we are not first, I suppose what we can hope for is
> that we do it better. Certainly I would rather refer to the Iris
> Encyclopedia than Daves Garden, or the dozen other references being
> created out there on the internet. If we proceed quickly and well to
> create a superior database, than people will come to the Iris Society for
> information. In that case we can send them to good sources and not the
> questionable ones that often now appear on e-bay.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Terry Aitken" <terry@flowerfantasy.net>
> To: aisdiscuss@aisboard.org
> Sent: Monday, March 14, 2011 1:09:55 PM
> Subject: RE: [AISdiscuss] Registration Images
>
> 	The idea that Mike and Anne are receiving pictures of introduction
> is news to me. They have never asked and I have never sent images. Ever
> since we went to a color catalog - about 15 to 20 years ago - we have
> offered all of our intos with color pictures. With an average of 10 per
> year
> (our own quota system), the 35mm slide days, I thought it was a waste of
> time trying to collect images of plants UNLESS THEY WON AWARDS. I have
> long
> thought that, like the orchid society, we should have images of plants
> that
> are awarded. (the world is full of plants that aren't.)
> 	Now, in the digital age, an image can be a double edged sword. It
> can show how GOOD or HOW BAD a plant can really look. Another dimension to
> this is PHOTOSHOP. Enormous tricks can be played on the viewer by
> messaging
> an image - removing faults like narrow falls or adding colors that the
> real
> thing does not have. How much do you want to pay the computer operator to
> come up with a fictitious image? (I will admit to removing leaf spot, dead
> buds and torn petals on some of my images but I know it can go much
> farther)
> In addition, color accuracy on computer screens and projectors has been a
> notoriously bad problem.
> 	Then there is the issue of the skill of the photographer. Some
> photographers are very good at hiding faults like haft marks by simply
> changing the angle of the flower. How good a story does the picture tell?
> A
> photographer, unskilled in iris evaluation, may shoot a flower partly open
> or partly dead or awkwardly twisted - quite repulsive to the average iris
> judge or purchaser.
> 	While the system is fraught with pitfalls, the concept of AN
> INFORMED PUBLIC is a good one. Perhaps some of our more computer literate
> irisarians can address the pitfalls?
>
> Terry Aitken
>
> If I have a color image to look at, I will not bother with a written
> description.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aisdiscuss@aisboard.org [mailto:owner-aisdiscuss@aisboard.org]
> On Behalf Of Robert Pries
> Sent: Monday, March 14, 2011 7:15 AM
> To: AISdiscuss
> Subject: [AISdiscuss] Registration Images
>
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