Cheryl wrote:
First and foremost - how much will the Wiki cost? With the volume of information you propose Bob, surely it cannot be free?
So far the wiki has been cost free. We the figure of $300 was proposed for the work in putting it up but the bill has never been submitted. So many people are in favor of it they donate their time and energy.
Second - who will maintain the integrity of the iris Wiki? From what I understand of wikis, anyone can put information on them at will in many instances, and that information does not have to be correct. How secure will an iris wiki be?
The wiki is about as secure as the AIS website. It is created by Iris people and maintained by them
Third - is it really necessary to put ALL the information from the R&Is on the wiki? That's a lot of data, and if we don't want to bore the general public to death, minimal descriptions would be best. Or is it just convenient for the "docents" to be able to 'cut and paste'?
The goal of the wiki is to be competitive with Dave’s garden etc, Dave’s garden put up at the information just scattered through the entry page and disrupted by ads. We are trying to compete as the webs main Iris information resource so that more people will come to the iris society. Doing something halfway will not achieve that statue.
Fourth - who will decide which pictures to put on the wiki? I personally have used Dave's Garden to get pictures of irises for sales, displays, etc. Sometimes the pictures are copyrighted, sometimes they aren't even close to correct, and like Jim Morris says, photoshop is used quite often.
Mnay of Gave’s garden photos are put up by general gardeners not irisarians. Rge wiki is created by your fellow irisarians and reviewed by them . But even they can make a mistake but our groups is more likely to catch it.
subscribe to iris register, and I am probably not one of the 'constant' users. My main purpose is to check on the availabilty of names, past, present & reserved. As a hybridizer, I would still use the register for reserve names.
The wiki does not have reserve names. The Register is more for an elite use and does not bring the outside world to Iris. On ther otherhand the wiki will be spotted by google and drive millions of views to the AIS website.
My sense of propriety has gotten a little tweeked by Bob Pries. Once he found out that the wiki had NOT been approved as he envisoned it, I feel he and his 'docents' should have ceased doing anything with it. Instead, he openly campaigned for people who knew how to 'cut and paste' and could volunteer to help add data. Since the original intent of the AIS Board was to create a Photo Wiki, not an online register for irises, Bob, your methods are a bit suspect. And to say the 'docents' would quit if they can't do what they are doing is a bit childish. Is it your way or no way?
Presently the docents have suspended work pending the decision of the board. I only passed on the e-mails that I received concerning their thoughts. While the wiki had had almost a 1000 entries a week before now none. At the same time Dave’s garden has just added 9000 more irises.
I was approached by Bob at the last convention to become one of the people who approved items going onto the wiki when he had them ready for approval. I haven't seen anything for approval, nor has he contacted me.
My vision of the iris wiki may be a bit limited for many, but I think a few pictures and then year of intro, hybridizer, and a brief description would suffice, with the addition of areas the iris does well.
I have repeatedly explained that for those that wish to help the first step is to log in to the wiki. I can not make someone a docent until they take the first step and register. I do not beg anyone to do that.
Unless we are going to put every introduced iris on the wiki, including some that may no longer exist, then it seems like it is just what the person in charge wishes to place on it, not the true reference inferred.
Yes the ultimate goal is to have every iris. What is the point of a censored encyclopedia.
----- Original Message -----
From: "cheryl deaton" <region15kids@hotmail.com>
To: aisdiscuss@aisboard.org
Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 12:08:51 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: RE: [AISdiscuss] Wiki and Irisregister
Sorry it's taken me so long to comment - tax season. I have a few questions and some comments about the iris wiki.
First and foremost - how much will the Wiki cost? With the volume of information you propose Bob, surely it cannot be free?
Second - who will maintain the integrity of the iris Wiki? From what I understand of wikis, anyone can put information on them at will in many instances, and that information does not have to be correct. How secure will an iris wiki be?
Third - is it really necessary to put ALL the information from the R&Is on the wiki? That's a lot of data, and if we don't want to bore the general public to death, minimal descriptions would be best. Or is it just convenient for the "docents" to be able to 'cut and paste'?
Fourth - who will decide which pictures to put on the wiki? I personally have used Dave's Garden to get pictures of irises for sales, displays, etc. Sometimes the pictures are copyrighted, sometimes they aren't even close to correct, and like Jim Morris says, photoshop is used quite often.
I subscribe to iris register, and I am probably not one of the 'constant' users. My main purpose is to check on the availabilty of names, past, present & reserved. As a hybridizer, I would still use the register for reserve names.
My sense of propriety has gotten a little tweeked by Bob Pries. Once he found out that the wiki had NOT been approved as he envisoned it, I feel he and his 'docents' should have ceased doing anything with it. Instead, he openly campaigned for people who knew how to 'cut and paste' and could volunteer to help add data. Since the original intent of the AIS Board was to create a Photo Wiki, not an online register for irises, Bob, your methods are a bit suspect. And to say the 'docents' would quit if they can't do what they are doing is a bit childish. Is it your way or no way?
I was approached by Bob at the last convention to become one of the people who approved items going onto the wiki when he had them ready for approval. I haven't seen anything for approval, nor has he contacted me.
My vision of the iris wiki may be a bit limited for many, but I think a few pictures and then year of intro, hybridizer, and a brief description would suffice, with the addition of areas the iris does well.
Unless we are going to put every introduced iris on the wiki, including some that may no longer exist, then it seems like it is just what the person in charge wishes to place on it, not the true reference inferred.
Cheryl Deaton
> Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 08:07:01 -0500
> From: robertpries@embarqmail.com
> To: aisdiscuss@aisboard.org
> Subject: Re: [AISdiscuss] Wiki and Irisregister
>
> The Iris register has been a workhorse for a tiny group of people in the Iris society and it will continue to be so. I have spoken with many Iris Register users and they see no threat from the wiki in replacing the Iris Register. For the uses that the Iris Register has traditionally provided, the wiki will provide too much information, and would not be as fast. John should see no threat to the relatively few people using the Iris register of abandoning it.
>
> The competition for the wiki and the register is the rest of the internet, not some internal turf battle. We need to provide as authoritative and as complete information as possible in order to compete with Wikipedia and Dave’s Garden. Dave’s Garden gives away its information yet still has almost 8 thousand subscribers. That alone generates almost $200,000, not counting advertising. I don’t expect anything close in revenue, but surely if we developed electronic memberships instead of wasting time worrying about internal competition, we could easily generate enough to put the society back on a more stable tract. The rewards could be substantial and the risk extremely minimal. Do we put at risk the effectiveness of the wiki in competing in the wider market? I am not trying to keep the Iris Society just as it is. That model has not been working for some time. The goal is to retain what we have and do something better that will give all the Iris societies a chance at survi!
> val.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John I Jones" <jijones@usjoneses.com>
> To: aisdiscuss@aisboard.org
> Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 1:09:55 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
> Subject: Re: [AISdiscuss] Wiki and Irisregister
>
> As i said from the beginning of this discussion, my intent is to be
> sure that the Board understood the impact of putting the iris
> registration information into the Iris Wiki. I will support whatever
> position the Board wishes to take about irisregister and the
> registration information, always have.
>
> I am also in favor of the iris wiki. I think that it will be a great
> tool for advancing irises and the AIS.
>
> A lot has been written about the issue of incorporating the iris
> registration information into the wiki, some of it conjecture, some
> fact, and some opinion. I thought it would be a good idea to try to
> summarize the relevant issues.
>
> Much has been said claiming that irisregister will actually increase
> its subscriber base because members of the wiki will want "higher
> authority". First we have to recognize that if the registration
> information is included in the wiki, there is no need for someone to
> access irisregister. They already have all the information and at no
> cost. Every time the irisregister is updated the information will
> migrate to the wiki.
>
> The most common user of irisregiser are those that access it to get
> descriptions for their iris sales. They are by far the majority of
> users. They will be able to get that information at no cost from the
> wiki.
>
> Most of the people that will access the wiki are just after pictures.
> They won't care about the descriptions.
>
> Using pictures for iris sales has become the best way to sell. With
> photo printing technology getting cheaper and cheaper, and software
> programs freely available to print multiple pictures per page,
> "custom catalogs" are a breeze and inexpensive. At the very beginning
> the wiki was proposed as a "Photo Wiki" to the board by Bob.
>
> It is probably true that some of the people that will be adding
> pictures to the wiki will subscribe to irisregister to be able to
> migrate the information to the wiki, at least until the majority of
> iris registration information is in the wiki at which point they
> will drop the irisregister subscription. However, the majority of
> wiki users that add pictures are going to do only that. Oh yes, it
> has been said that many of the current docents will quit if they can
> not put the iris registration in the wiki. If they perceive that the
> wiki is only valuable with the registration information in it, then
> they are just trying to get the information for free.
>
> Frankly, there is so much more information that can be added to the
> wiki that is of far greater interest and value to the (predominate)
> general user that it is hard for me to understand why the
> registration information is so important. Growth habits, hardiness,
> disease resistance, geographic limitations, increases and on and on.
> What kind of iris to grow in what environment. This is all much more
> important to most of the future wiki users.
>
> There is no doubt in my mind that the wiki will be good for AIS. It
> will advance irises tothe public and bring in more members.
> Irisregister was never conceived or designed to attract more users to
> the AIS. It was designed to provide as database and search engine for
> the information. There will be far more wiki users that irisregister
> users.
>
> The problem is of course that no one knows for sure that will happen.
> Not I, not Bob. We can all make guesses about what will happen but no
> one knows with any degree of confidence. It is my considered opinion,
> and I have years of experience with irisregister, that we will loose
> a significant part of the irisregister revenue. That may be well
> ameliorated by more members drawn in from exposure to the wiki, and I
> hope it is.
>
> John
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