Re: Re: Final Awards List

[Jill Bonino <aistreas@earthlink.net>]

I stand corrected.  I should have thought about the "asterisk" controvery in the HR stats. I don't recognize Bonds or McGuires' stats either.  OK.  I withdraw the comment about adding an asterisk.

I am sure we have other suggestions for changes in the Judges Handbook that could be proposed  and discussed between now and the 2013 ballot season and add this change about the deadline with those.  

Jill 


-----Original Message-----
>From: MORRISJE1@aol.com
>Sent: Aug 23, 2012 4:19 PM
>To: aisdiscuss@aisboard.org
>Subject: Re: [AISdiscuss] Re: Final Awards List
>
>I love your thinking. More than a penny's worth.  And I do agree  with 
>Gerry about no asterisk.  It wasn't fair to Maris or Ruth.  True  baseball fans 
>know about both 60 and 61 HRs and will never accept the steroid  induced 
>records of McGuire and Bonds.  Jim
> 
> 
>In a message dated 8/23/2012 2:14:20 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
>aistreas@earthlink.net writes:
>
>
>I think that this is a "freak thing" in one year.  Mail from overseas can 
>sometimes take weeks to arrive after being postmarked.  What do we do if you 
>receive a ballot in October properly postmarked but it  got lost somewhere 
>in the system...either domestic or foreign? How long do you  "hold" the 
>winners list in case you get a late but official ballot?  
>Option #1 - Delay releasing Award Winners List until Aug 15th?  If  
>anything arrives after that date, don't change the totals but give the Judge  
>credit for voting that year.  Would the Academy Awards change the winner  if they 
>got a late but properly postmarked ballot that got lost in the  mail?  I am 
>sure many of their members live overseas.  I don't think  so.   They have a 
>"received by" deadline, not a postmark  deadline.  
>Option #2 - For 2013 and after, change the ballot deadline to a  "received 
>by" date such as August 10 rather than the postmark date of Aug  1?   
>Option #3 -  Consider the original winner (who now is officially  bumped 
>off) as still in a tie for the last HM position and add the correct  winners 
>in?    
>Option #4 - Correct the original Winners List after adding in the late  
>ballot and drop the original winners?   
>At some point voting will all be electronic and this will be moot,  but 
>that is several years away.  
>For 2012, I think we should do Option #3 and add the iris that were  
>originally included on the HM list as still included but in a tie for the  last 
>spots.  No Medal awards or AM awards were affected.  It  think it would be 
>good PR.  It doesn't cost us anything but an added  HM certificate or two.  An 
>"asterisk" could be put in the Awards file for  2012 and an explanation of 
>what happened.  
>Then I think we should make a motion to do Option #2 and have a "received  
>by" date for the ballot instead of a "postmark" date.  Then we are  not 
>setting a precedent and this problem cannot happen  again.    In the future if 
>it gets lost in the mail, it is  not counted.   If we change the date to a 
>"received by" date now, we  would have plenty of time to print and post on our 
>website that this change  will come next year, and hopefully judges will 
>send in their ballots to be  sure they get here in time even with the 
>possibility of bad postal  service.  
>My penny's worth.  
>JIll  
>
>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Gerry Snyder  <geraldcsnyder@gmail.com>
>>Sent: Aug 18, 2012 3:55 PM
>>To:  aisdiscuss@aisboard.org
>>Subject: [AISdiscuss] Re: Final Awards  List
>>
>>On 8/18/2012 1:51 PM, MORRISJE1@aol.com wrote:
>>>  As I said earlier and state more strongly now: I think it is 
>>>  inherently wrong for AIS to put out an awards list and then to have to  
>>> correct it removing people who had a false joy and were already  
>>> receiving congratulations from around their region. I would  rather 
>>> see us add them back in and error on the side of  encouragement to 
>>> hybridizers rather than disappointment. Do I  have to put it in the 
>>> form of a motion? Nobody responded that  they even read my first email.
>>
>>I will, of course, add back the  two iris that were in the premature (and 
>>erroneous) winners listing if  so directed by the AIS president, or by a 
>>passed motion from the  board.
>>
>>But bending (or breaking) the rules because we feel  sorry for the 
>>hybridizer seems like the wrong thing to do, or at least  a dangerous 
>>precedent. Would the subject even have come up if the iris  involved came 
>>from Schreiners? I certainly sympathize with not wanting  to discourage a 
>>hybridizer, though.
>>
>>One further  question: The early list had a three-way tie for sixth place 
>>in the  Siberian HM winners with 20 votes (and the category was supposed 
>>to  have six winners plus ties). Two of them dropped off the list when 
>>one  of the three got a vote in the late ballot. The question is whether,  
>>if one of the iris with 19 votes in the original list had also got a  
>>vote (neither did, fortunately), raising its total to 20, would it  also 
>>be promoted, or would two iris with 20 votes be declared winners  and 
>>another with 20 votes not be a winner? The two lists are shown  below. An 
>>example of my question is "What if LAUGH OUT LOUD had 20  votes in the 
>>second list?"
>>
>>Anyhow, to reiterate my  first comment, I will gladly do whatever the 
>>board and/or president  wish. But if there is much further delay in 
>>releasing an official list  I will be purchasing a military quality flak 
>>jacket to protect myself  from those clamoring for the list, and charging 
>>the jacket to  AIS.
>>
>>Gerry Snyder
>>AIS Awards  Chair
>>
>>
>>Early list:
>>
>>SIB HONORABLE  MENTION
>>(Total votes cast = 693)
>>85 GINGER TWIST (Marty  Schafer/Jan Sacks)
>>78 MISS APPLE (Marty Schafer/Jan Sacks)
>>38  LUCY LOCKET (Marty Schafer/Jan Sacks)
>>26 CAPE COD BOYS (Marty  Schafer/Jan Sacks)
>>23 TRIP TO PARIS (Marty Schafer/Jan Sacks)
>>20  DIRIGO INDIGO (John White)
>>20 HOW AUDACIOUS (Robert  Hollingworth)
>>20 JANE M. SADLER (Barbara Schuette)
>>Runners  Up:
>>19 LAUGH OUT LOUD (Robert Hollingworth)
>>19 SYLVIA'S LOVE  (Sylvia Borglum)
>>
>>Revised list:
>>
>>SIB HONORABLE  MENTION
>>(Total votes cast = 699)
>>86 GINGER TWIST (Marty  Schafer/Jan Sacks)
>>79 MISS APPLE (Marty Schafer/Jan Sacks)
>>38  LUCY LOCKET (Marty Schafer/Jan Sacks)
>>26 CAPE COD BOYS (Marty  Schafer/Jan Sacks)
>>24 TRIP TO PARIS (Marty Schafer/Jan Sacks)
>>21  HOW AUDACIOUS (Robert Hollingworth)
>>Runners Up:
>>20 DIRIGO INDIGO  (John White)
>>20 JANE M. SADLER (Barbara Schuette)
>>19 LAUGH OUT  LOUD (Robert Hollingworth)
>>19 SYLVIA'S LOVE (Sylvia  Borglum)
>>
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