RE: Motion regarding foreign registrations

[RON AND SUSAN COSNER <keighley15@msn.com>]

I agree John's motion seems to be the most fair. After sifting through all the
emails I have seen the last few days. And I think the idea of a per cent
shared from the fee is a good idea. Thank you and happy gardening

Ron and
Sue Cosner


> From: region15kids@hotmail.com
> To: aisdiscuss@aisboard.org
> Subject: RE: [AISdiscuss] Motion regarding foreign registrations
> Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 08:42:47 -0700
>
> Hello everyone,
> My education has increased in the past 24 hours after talking to a few
foreign
> hybridizers and others. For the most part, EVERY Associate Registrar
performs
> a service to their hybridizers, for which they charge a fee. (None of us
would
> argue that by performing a service, fees should NOT be charged). The AIS
> provides each Associate Registrar with access to IrisRegister so that they
> have the most current information regarding reserved and used names of
irises,
> which they research before sending the registration to our
Registrar/Recorder.
> Also, even in English speaking countries there is a slight difference in
the
> language which is corrected by the Associate Registrars
> and the translation services provided by non English speaking countries is
> invaluable. In some countries the fees charged are shared by the Associate
> Registrar and the foreign society.
>
> To answer some of Andi's questions, we are not per se raising fees for
foreign
> hybridizers, but asking them to pay the American Iris Society for
> registrations the same way that American hybridizers have been paying for
> years. As an extreme example, a New Zealand hybridizer pays nothing to
> register an iris, and I pay $15 to register an iris. Then you have the
other
> foreign hybridizer that is charged $23 by their Associate Registrar, which
is
> $8 more than I have to pay. Because the Associate Registrars and foreign
> societies charge differently for their registrations, there will always be
an
> inequity.
>
> Will some foreign hybridizers object? Of course. Will they stop registering
> their iris with us? It is a possibillity, but I think on the whole they
will
> continue to register their irises with us. Understand that there are some
> hybridizers that do not register irises at all and sell their "named"
irises
> willy nilly, including some in the Unite States!
>
> As to John's statement that the R&Is bring us money, that is somewhat true,
> but on the other hand we have an inventory in the AIS Storefront of prior
year
> R&Is that are costing money to sit in storage.
>
> John's motion, on reflection, seems to be the most equitable solution, and
I
> highly support it. The world is ever changing and I imagine that we as a
> society will make many changes in the next few years to reflect those
> changes.
> Cheryl
>
>
> > From: andinsky@gmail.com
> > Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 08:05:09 -0600
> > Subject: Re: [AISdiscuss] Motion regarding foreign registrations
> > To: aisdiscuss@aisboard.org
> >
> > Hey John, thanks for the explanation. I find your points very detailed
and
> > more clear for me to understand being a newbie.
> >
> > I have some questions, but the Board may have already explored them.
> >
> > AIS seems to need to clarify its own role on this. I understand that we
> need
> > to cover our own expenses, but as we have taken the role of World
registrar
> > for irises that many years ago, we need to see each country, and each
> > hybridizer in other countries as a brother/sister that speaks another
> > language, that's all. Would we raise prices on our own? I mean, they are
> > already paying a fee.
> >
> > A- So, my first question is: do we want -- to continue -- to be the world
> > registrar for all irises? And if so, are we being impartial by --
basically
> > -- raising the price for foreign registrations only.
> >
> > B- Instead or raising prices, which will end up costing the little
guy/gal
> > everywhere more to register, and discourage registration (a main goal to
> our
> > worldwide role) couldn't funds be raised in a different way? Could we
find
> a
> > sponsor to cover registration costs? I mean, since we don't suppose to
make
> > a profit, it would be nice to ask someone (a company) that can afford it
It
> > would worth the effort to try to find someone. Discover a new source of
> > income!
> >
> > C- Even though we were/are consulting with foreign registrars, who we are
> > really affecting are the foreign hybridizers. Aren't we? Should we
consult
> > with them? Again, shouldn't we then treat them as a U.S. hybridizer (that
> > speaks are foreign language) and think of them equally? I mean, they are
> > already paying a fee.
> >
> > D- The possible perception at foreign countries that we're treating them
> > differently because they need to pay more in order to register their iris
> > create a descent by foreign hybridizers? Have we thoroughly thought of
the
> > the consequences if this was they case?
> >
> > Again, you may have all already discussed these points, but they came to
> > mind.
> >
> > Thanks for taking the time to read these.
> >
> > Andi Rivarola
> > PS: Writing while enjoying a beautiful raising sun at Yellowstone
National
> > Park, WY.
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 11:44 PM, John Jones <jijones@usjoneses.com>
wrote:
> >
> > > I think we need to clarify some issues and put some things in
> perspective.
> > >
> > >
> > > 1: While AIS was not receiving any money for registrations from foreign
> > > hybridizers, that does not mean that they were not paying a fee to
> register
> > > their iris (to their Country Associate Registrar). In fact, almost all
> > > foreign registrants paid a fee, as enumerated on one of my previous
> posts.
> > >
> > >
> > > 2: AIS is not supposed to make a profit by charging for registrations.
> The
> > > ICRA allows Registrars to charge a fee to COVER COSTS. It was not the
> intent
> > > of the original motion to charge foreign registrants a fee in order to
> > > "balance the AIS Books."
> > >
> > > 3: Because we were not charging foreign registrants, we were in a
deficit
> > > condition based of current expenses, specifically:
> > >
> > > Registrar's salary (annual) $9600.00
> > > Approximate costs for shipping, postage, paper, toner, and other office
> > > costs: $900.00
> > > 5 year depreciation schedule for Registrar's computer system: $1300.00
> > > (aprox)
> > >
> > > Total annual costs: $11,800
> > >
> > > Assuming for the point of discussion that there are 600 registrations
> > > annually from North America and 700 from other countries.
> > >
> > > If the AIS were to receive $15.00 from each registrant that would
> generate
> > > $19,500 far exceeding out costs. And before anyone jumps in and says
"yes
> > > but we have to print the R&Is and Checklists", that is true but we make
a
> > > profit on that as well.
> > >
> > > Remember also that before the Board decided to charge foreign
registrants
> > > we would only receive 600 X $15.00 or $9000.00 (less than our current
> costs.
> > >
> > > 4: The real point of my current motion is to recognize that foreign
> > > registrants, under the current fee structure, would be paying more (in
> > > almost every case) than North American registrants (the AIS $15.00 AIS
> fee
> > > plus their country Associate fee). My current motion is an attempt to
> > > mitigate that issue.
> > >
> > > The foreign Iris Societies set the fee that the Associate Registrars
> > > charge. Whether that fee goes to the Associate Registrar or not is
their
> > > business, not ours. Remember that the AIS pays their Registrar (me) a
fee
> > > supported by the fee charged to registrants.
> > >
> > > As i detailed in a previous post, the Associate Registrars provide a
> > > valuable service to me, making my job much easier. (Note that that is a
> > > relative statement. The job of Registrar is still very difficult. Even
> > > dealing with some of the North American registrants is a challenge...)
> > >
> > > Before we worry too much about giving away $5.00 per foreign
> registration,
> > > remember that 45 days ago we weren't getting anything from them. We
need
> to
> > > try to be as fair and even handed to everyone as we can. We also need
to
> > > have a uniform approach to all foreign countries. We can't have
different
> > > standards for different countries or people.
> > >
> > > In receiving $10.00 per foreign registration we will generate an
> additional
> > > estimated $7000.00 for a total registrations revenue of $16,000 which
is
> > > still in excess (significantly) of our estimated costs. Even if we
adopt
> my
> > > "fee sharing" approach, the fee foreign registrants pay will go up from
> what
> > > they are accustomed to paying and I believe that additional fee will
> cause
> > > the number of foreign registrations to diminish to some degree, but
> > > obviously I have no specific data to support that.
> > >
> > > Also if we don't allocate $5.00 of the $15.00 dollar registration fee
to
> > > the associate registrar (thus reducing the total cost to the
registrant)
> we
> > > may find that foreign registrants just stop registering irises (which
is
> the
> > > antithesis of our purpose). There is also some concern that some other
> > > country may petition the ICRA to become the World Wide Registrar for
> > > non-Bulbous Irises and the all North American registrants would end up
> > > sending registration requests to some foreign country just as a result
of
> > > our raising the fee at all.
> > >
> > > So far I have had two responses to a recent email to all foreign
> Associate
> > > Registrars describing my revenue sharing approach:
> > >
> > > Jean Peyrard of France: "I agree it's a good solution, I transfer to
the
> > > French Society",
> > >
> > > Sergey Loktev of Russia: "I consider the suggestion logical".
> > >
> > >
> > > As to Susan's questions, my comments are interspersed below.
> > >
> > > John
> > >
> > > On Aug 19, 2011, at 12:10 PM, Susan Boyce wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi all,
> > > > Now that I am home from work, I can finally sit down and put my
> > > thoughts
> > > > into words about this.
> > > > In my opinion, I would like to find out some more information before
I
> > > would
> > > > vote to send $5.00 to the associate registrars in other countries.
> > > > 1. Does the money the foreign associates receive go into their own
> > > pockets,
> > > > or does it go into their respective iris societies coiffers.
> > >
> > > answered above
> > >
> > > > I would really
> > > > hate to see us send an extra $5.00 just to end up in someone's
pocket.
> > >
> > > Remember that AIS pays me to be Registrar from registration revenues.
> > > Foreign Associate Registrars are performing a service at the behest of
> their
> > > respective Iris Societies. They deserve, under the rules of the ICRA,
to
> > > charge a fee to mitigate their costs. But because they do and because
we
> > > have decided to charge foreign registrants a fee, the registrants are
> faced
> > > with paying a double fee. That is not particularly fair and it is what
I
> am
> > > attempting to mitigate (among other reasons) with my motion. To as
great
> an
> > > extent as possible, we should create an environment where by all
> registrants
> > > face the same fee structure. Granted given all the various economies
and
> > > specific country variations, we will never have perfect uniformity, but
> we
> > > can do our best.
> > >
> > > > 2. What exactly does the foreign associates do?
> > >
> > > Described in an other email
> > >
> > > > Do they just forward the
> > > > registrations onto us? Do they translate effectively and/or correctly
> > > the
> > > > registrations before sending them to us?
> > >
> > > Some translate more effectively than others, but certainly better than
I
> > > could. Plus they add experience as to how to describe an iris clone and
> > > correct/clarify the registrations.
> > >
> > > > All of these questions should be answered before we should vote on
any
> > > > changes.
> > > > Susan Boyce
> > > >
> > > > .
> > > > .
> > > > .
> > > > .
> > > >
> > > >> Subject: Re: [AISdiscuss] Motion regarding foreign registrations
> > > >> From: jijones@usjoneses.com
> > > >> Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 15:55:46 -0700
> > > >> To: aisdiscuss@aisboard.org
> > > >>
> > > >> The whole point of having a discussion after a motion is made is to
> get
> > > > thoughts on the table and vet the subject.
> > > >>
> > > >> HOW ABOUT SPEAKING UP!
> > > >>
> > > >> John
> > > >>
> > > >> On Aug 16, 2011, at 12:47 PM, Michelle Snyder wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>> John Jones moved and Cheryl Deaton seconded the below motion. As
such
> > > it
> > > > is open for discussion.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> "That each foreign registrant pay a fee of USD$15.00 (or its
> equivalent
> > > in
> > > > the country currency) per iris registration or iris name reservation
to
> > > the
> > > > country Associate Registrar. That the country Associate Registrar
keep
> > > > USD$5.00 (or its equivalent in the country currency) per iris
> > > registration or
> > > > iris name reservation and pay the AIS USD$10.00 per iris registration
> or
> > > iris
> > > > name reservation, such payments to the AIS to be made via a PayPal
> system
> > > or
> > > > such other arrangements as may be enumerated by the AIS
> > > Registrar-Recorder for
> > > > his convenience. All payments to the AIS registrar to be made in USD.
> The
> > > AIS
> > > > respectfully requests, but does not require, the country Associate
> > > Registrars
> > > > to accept the USD$5.00 stipend as full payment for their services as
> > > Associate
> > > > Register in managing iris registrations and iris name reservations.
> That
> > > the
> > > > services of the country Associate Registrar include, but may not be
> > > limited
> > > > to, iris name checking against the irisregister.com database, !
> > > >> translation (as appropriate), transliteration (as appropriate), and
> > > > description review ad editing.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Michelle Snyder,
> > > >>> AIS Secretary
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > >
> > > __________________
> > > John I Jones
> > > Registrar-Recorder
> > > American Iris Society
> > > aisregistrar@irises.org
> > >
> > >
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