Re: Foreign Registration Fee

[Robert Pries <robertpries@embarqmail.com>]

I regret that it takes inflammatory rhetoric to get a reconsideration of a
motion. I had not said that the board is not hardworking orB that it does not
spend considerableB personal money toB do its job. Now and then I do think it
does not have all the information it could use for a decision. I think Jills
point that topics can be discussed with more and better inputB in the online
discussions is true. I certainly feel that we should choose that route more
than the meetings where time always is running out.

As far the costs ofB registration;B the only reason whyB it has been said
B that overseas registrations cost us more is because we have been successful
in turning around the situation where the overseas hubridizers just introduced
and did not register. That was a goal we were hoping to achieve. That fact
that there are more now, does not make each registration more expensive than a
domestic registration. In the five years I served on the board you may note
that I always tried to save AIS money and find new sources of revenue. My
actions actually would have resulted in a suplus budget if the board had not
had spent even more than the $16K I saved us for finding a new printer.
Raising reg istrations is not the only way to increase revenue. Despite good
intentions we still do not create plans of action that are more than immediate
responses to situations. Being proactive is difficult. But the society would
benefit by spending more time looking at the whole picture. As hard as I have
worked to turn this So ciety around I feel I have failed. Membership has
continued to decline and until we reverse that I feel the board should be
quite humble.

B 
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jill Bonino" <aistreas@earthlink.net>
To: aisdiscuss@aisboard.org
Sent: Monday, August 15, 2011 7:21:14 PM
Subject: Re: [AISdiscuss] Foreign Registration Fee



My comments are in talics.B  Jill


-----Original Message-----
>From: Robert Pries
>Sent: Aug 15, 2011 1:58 PM
>To: aisdiscuss@aisboard.org
>Subject: Re: [AISdiscuss] Foreign Registration Fee
>
>Excuse Me! but I do not know of anything the AIS has been paying for, for
many years, for the processing of Foreign registrations.

JB:B  Bob, we have been paying Mike and Anne's salary which is proportional to
the foreign registrations they have processed.B  We have also had the
increased printing costs of the R&Is and Ten-Year Checklist due to the
increasing amount of foreign introductions...As of 2110, more than 50% were
from foreign hybridizers...In addition, and I just got an earful over the
phone from Mike, soB  here it comes, the Lowe's have been subsidizing the
Registrar Office since they have done the work.B  This is a great contribution
to the AIS, BUT it will not be continuing.B  We just paid over $6,000 for a
new computer and software for John Jones' Registrar Office and I doubt that he
will be donating office expenses such as the Lowe's have been doing.B 
-----Original Message-----
>From: Robert Pries
>Sent: Aug 15, 2011 1:58 PM
>To: aisdiscuss@aisboard.org
>Subject: Re: [AISdiscuss] Foreign Registration Fee
>
>Excuse Me! but I do not know of anything the AIS has been paying for, for
many years, for the processing of Foreign registrations.

JB:B  Bob, we have been paying Mike and Anne's salary which is proportional to
the foreign registrations they have processed.B  We have also had the
increased printing costs of the R&Is and Ten-Year Checklist due to the
increasing amount of foreign introductions...As of 2110, more than 50% were
from foreign hybridizers...In addition, and I just got an earful over the
phone from Mike, soB  here it comes, the Lowe's have been subsidizing the
Registrar Office since they have done the work.B  This is a great contribution
to the AIS, BUT it will not be continuing.B  We just paid over $6,000 for a
new computer and software for John Jones' Registrar Office and I doubt that he
will be donating office expenses such as the Lowe's have been doing.B 




Changing currency is a cost of a fraction of a percent. What other costs has
AIS had? The foreign registrars have done most of the work. I am sorry but
unless yopu can provide some data this sounds like a bunch of bull.



JB: I don't appreciate this kind of tone in emails one bit.





The board should be ashamed of acting on so little information. Mike Lowe was
not consulted nor were any of the foreign registrars whom John will have to
work with. I am not opposed to foreign hybridizers paying an equal amount but
the minutes state they presently pay nothing which is a lie.



JB:B  Then the minutes should be corrected...which they can be in Atlanta.B 



B I am really upset that the board acts so rashly and discourteously and
without any knowledge.



JB:B  OK, this is where I have had enough.B  We are all VOLUNTEERS.B B B  We
do what we can and many of us are doing more than one job.B  For those of you
who attend and have attended AIS Board meetings, they are lengthy marathons
with much discussion, and as times have changed, they have become more
expensive to attend...which none of us get any reimbursement for.B  We do this
for the love of iris, and I for one resent the implication that my vote was
made rashly, discourteously, or without any knowledge.B  .B  We make decisions
with the information we have from the people who are there and our own best
judgment.B B I have attended every Board Mtg since the Fall of 2001...That's
10 years experience of learning the operations of the AIS and reasoning things
out with each other.B  Many of you have spent much more time than this .B 



They could have at least consulted with the people who have some knowledge,
the previous registrar and the assistant registrars. It appears very heavy
handed for a new registrar to come in and dictate to the assistants he will
need to work with.





B Such !
> arbitrary actions make me ashamed of being an AIS member. But then the board
is not elected by its members and often does not seem to represent them at
all.







Two past presidents have suggested that maybe the board should re-examine
these changes. I have not been impressed by the boards knowledge of our
history so I will point ou that the reason the Iris society was founded in the
first place was to create sense of the chaos that existed in Iris names and to
encourage Iris registration. Mike Lowe has been able to get many European
countries that that were introducing Irises before and not registering them to
comply with Irises regfistration. I hope that the new registrar does not
destroy this achievemnent by distating to countries that could easily say why
should I bother with this new asshole. If he proceeds diplomatically you can
strike the word asshole, but I see no reason why the boards decisions would be
percieved at the moment otherwise. There is no tact evident and no !
> consideration of other countries situations that is obvious. W!
> ith the present trajectory I would imagine many irises being put on the
market around the world never being registered and the individuals, who have
been trying to take away the honor of being the worlds registration authority
from the AIS are building a stronger case.





JB:B  As everyone knows the world and its operations are more global than
every before and we cannot keep doing business as we have been doing.B  Two
Board meetings a year is not enough to investigate, discuss and come to
decisions that have far reachingB implications.



Technology has advanced enough that we can have electronic meetings between
in-person meetings.B 



I respectfully ask that electronic meetings be placed as an item of New
Business on the Agenda for the Atlanta Board in November.B  I do agree with
Bob, that we cannot continue operating the way we have been.B  I just wish he
had been able to make his comments with a little more respect for the hard
work that all of us have put in, including himself!B 



As for charging $15 for foreign registrations, my earlier comments, as
Treasurer, B stand.B  The AIS cannot afford--without new sources of revenue
which are not here yet--to continue to subsidize them.B  We can always cut
this fee along with others when our financial condition is in better shape.B 






>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Jill Bonino"
>To: aisdiscuss@aisboard.org
>Sent: Monday, August 15, 2011 2:23:38 PM
>Subject: Re: [AISdiscuss] Foreign Registration Fee
>
>It was my understanding also that the Board's approval of a $15 registration
fee for foreign registrations was to be in addition to what they already pay
to their country's registrar.
>
>While I know it won't be popular with the foreign hybridizers that they in
reality will be paying more than domestic hybridizers for this service, the
fact is that to process a foreign registration does cost more than a domestic
registration. It has for many years, but the AIS has been paying for it at the
expense of the domestic hybridizers. As Treasurer, we cannot afford to do this
any longer.
>
>Jill
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Robert Pries
>>Sent: Aug 12, 2011 12:05 PM
>>To: aisdiscuss@aisboard.org
>>Subject: Re: [AISdiscuss] Foreign Registration Fee
>>
>>We all know about the law of unintended cosequenses. No matter the reality
the
>>appearance is that AIS is trying to balance their books on the backs of the
>>Foreign Hybridizers. The Foreign Hybridizers are having to pay more than the
>>USA hybridizers. Of course the motion actually said it wanted something fair
>>but your interpretation does not come out that way.
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "John Jones"
>>To: aisdiscuss@aisboard.org
>>Sent: Friday, August 12, 2011 12:17:55 PM
>>Subject: Re: [AISdiscuss] Foreign Registration Fee
>>
>>No, that is not the interpretation that the Board intended. In the
>>discussions, the fee was intended to be in addition B any fees charged by
the
>>Associate Registrars.
>>
>>
>>John
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>On Aug 12, 2011, at 8:41 AM, Robert Pries wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>The motion made by the board this Spring was; That foreign registrants pay
AIS
>>the same registration fee as US and Canadian Registrants pay. Fee to be paid
>>in USD, effective August 1, 2011 . Motion carried . B B Since the fees
>>collected by The assistant registrars in each country have been given to
them
>>for their services acting as collectors and translators B B I would take
this
>>to mean that AIS would have to return the amount to those assistants that is
>>under the price of registration and in some cases pay the additional amount
>>the were receiving to the assistants. The Foreign registrants fee should not
>>increase but in several cases may decrease because it will be the same as
USA
>>registrants according to the motion and AIS will owe the respective
assistants
>>those lost funds.
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "John Jones" < jijones@usjoneses.com >
>>To: aisdiscuss@aisboard.org
>>Cc: "Mike Lowe" < mlowe@worldiris.com >
>>Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2011 2:14:52 PM
>>Subject: [AISdiscuss] Foreign Registration Fee
>>
>>All,
>>
>>
>>I have been in discussion with Michele Bersillon concerning the new fee for
>>foreign registrants to pay the same fee as North American hybridizers and
her
>>request to register directly with the AIS since she is an American national
>>and files completely in English.
>>
>>
>>I have previously told her that she would need to continue to file through
an
>>associate registrar and that as to the fees. If the country registrar
charges
>>a fee, it is in addition to the fee required by the AIS.
>>
>>
>>Her most recent response is below and as the world wide registration
authority
>>for non-bulbous irises, the AIS Board of Directors needs to be aware of the
>>potential implications of their recent decision.
>>
>>
>>While some of this may just be pique, there may be some potential
problem(s).
>>On the other hand I have notB yetB heard complaints from any other Associate
>>Registrars except to enquire about details of how people are to pay. I am
>>setting up a PayPal account and trying to work out some of those details.
>>
>>
>>We could adopt a policy that would allow the Associate Registrars to take
some
>>amount of the AIS fee (e.g., $5.00) for their service. Registrants would pay
>>$10 to AIS and whatever fee to the Associate Registrar. Or pay the Associate
>>registrar directly and the Associate pay the AIS (via PayPal)
>>
>>
>>I am open to other suggestions, lacking any other action by the Board, B to
>>continue with the policy as instituted.
>>
>>
>>Thanks
>>
>>
>>John
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Begin forwarded message:
>>
>>
>>
>>From: M Bersillon < auxiris5@orange.fr >
>>
>>Date: August 10, 2011 11:43:04 PM PDT
>>
>>To: John Jones < jijones@usjoneses.com >
>>
>>Subject: Re: Misc
>>
>>
>>John,
>>
>>
>>For your information, all associate registrars have always charged a fee for
>>registration (it varies from country to country), so all registrants outside
>>of north America will now be paying over $15 for each registration; I am not
>>the only one involved! B However, I would like to say feel that it is very
>>unfair to ask people outside of the United States to now pay the equivalent
of
>>somewhere between $19 and nearly $23 for official registration of each plant
>>and, unless the various European iris societies decide to stop demanding a
fee
>>for registrations, you may eventually find yourself either with a rebellion
on
>>your hands or simply a progressiveB refusalB on the part of Europeans to
>>register their plants with the AIS. B This may result in the indiscriminate
>>use of names that may already have been used by previously registered plants
>>or simply those that aren't officially registered, even by plants that are
>>commercialised, with the confusion that you can easily imagine. B There are
>>already a whole whack of iris commercialised in France that don't have
>>officially registered names, including an entire page in the Bourdillon
>>catalogue, for example; I don't know why they never registered these plants.
>>B B
>>
>>
>>
>>Just for the record and since you ask, I ceased registering my plants with
the
>>SFIB for many reasons. B First of all, the registrar of this association
made
>>many mistakes on one of my first registrations and then, when I sent him
>>corrections, he set about making others and finally I had to correct the
>>problem directly with Keith Keppel, since Jean Peyrard is a most difficult
>>person to deal with directly and does not accept remarks about the mistakes
>>that he continues to make with good grace. B Then I had other problems with
>>the association and no longer wished either to be a member or pay them any
>>money for any reason, so I requested to send in registration forms directly
>>and pay the full AIS fee, but was not allowed to do so. B The AIS registrar
at
>>the time told me that I had to send my forms in French to the SFIB registrar
>>and then post a form in English directly to him, plus paying the SFIB fee,
>>which was not acceptable to me---just to spare someone's feelings. B Life is
>>complicated enough already. B Simply to be able to continue to officially
>>register plants, I asked Gisela Dathe if I could send in my already
filled-out
>>English language forms through GdS and have been paying their fee even
though
>>they do not do anything more than post my forms along with theirs. B Now
that
>>the forms are likely to be electronic ones (a definite progress), there may
>>not be much in the way of actual postal fees, so I have no idea how they
will
>>deal with that. B I would suggest that, as the new AIS registrar, you
contact
>>them about how they are going to do things, as Gisela wasn't aware of how
>>things are going to work now when I asked her earlier this year. B B B
>>
>>
>>Incidentally, Richard Cayeux told me a few things about his problems with
>>registrations this year, including a refusal of the name "Ciel Gris sur
>>Poilly", which seemed very strange to me since I didn't think the name could
>>possibly have already been used. B Apparently there was some issue about the
>>name having four words, but this has been allowed for quite some time now
and
>>is even mentioned on the SFIB website, so it is very unclear what happened.
>>B Should Richard get in touch with you directly to straighten out this
matter?
>>B B B
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>All the best,
>>
>>
>>MicheleB
>>
>>
>>P.S My first name has only one "l". B
>>B B
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>__________________B
>>John I Jones
>>Registrar-Recorder
>>American Iris Society
>>aisregistrar@irises.org
>>
>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>To sign-off this list, send email to the AIS Secretary
>>
>>The archives for AISDiscuss are at:
>>http://www.aisboard.org/lists/aisdiscuss/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>__________________B
>>John I Jones
>>Registrar-Recorder
>>American Iris Society
>>aisregistrar@irises.org
>>
>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>To sign-off this list, send email to the AIS Secretary
>>
>>The archives for AISDiscuss are at:
>>http://www.aisboard.org/lists/aisdiscuss/
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>To sign-off this list, send email to the AIS Secretary
>
>The archives for AISDiscuss are at:
>http://www.aisboard.org/lists/aisdiscuss/
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>To sign-off this list, send email to the AIS Secretary
>
>The archives for AISDiscuss are at:
>http://www.aisboard.org/lists/aisdiscuss/
--------------------------------------------------------------------- To
sign-off this list, send email to the AIS Secretary The archives for
AISDiscuss are at: http://www.aisboard.org/lists/aisdiscuss/

---------------------------------------------------------------------
To sign-off this list, send email to the AIS Secretary
<aissecretary@irises.org>
The archives for AISDiscuss are at:
http://www.aisboard.org/lists/aisdiscuss/