Re: Foreign Registration Fee Speculation.

To: aisdiscuss@aisboard.org
Subject: Re: Foreign Registration Fee Speculation.
From: John Jones <jijones@usjoneses.com>
Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2011 20:34:57 -0700
On Aug 14, 2011, at 11:10 AM, Terry Aitken wrote:

> Hi All
> Pardon my butting in! I just finished hand writing my annual registrations.
> It is my hope that we will someday have a registration form on line that
> anybody on the planet can fill out - in English - and submit directly to the
> registrar. This could be a huge benefit to our registrar in eliminating
> redundant transcribing and the very rare human error.

Well I can certainly create an electronic, fillable online form, but who is to say that someone's english is good enough? There are some that are very good and other not so much,

Here are a couple of descriptions that are a little puzzling (and these from one of our Associate Registrars):

Falls: white with gentle lilac veins, toward to signal more frequently

or:

Falls: deep purple, near to beards is color between deep purple veins going step by step from whitish to deep purple ground. Edge is lighter.

I am not asking for any help interpreting the above descriptions, just pointing our that not everyone who speaks or understands a little english is capable of writing an understandable description.  (heck, even some of our North American registrants can't write an understandable description)

What about Great Britain, Australia, and New Zealand?

> Yes, there will be screams heard 'round the world "BUT I AM NOT ON
> COMPUTER!!!" There does need to be some sort of accommodation and I am very
> glad it is not my job!
> This could also be a huge benefit in assembling the annual and ten year
> registration books. I would guess that some sort of spreadsheet would work?
> (I have no idea how it is done now!)

It is done in a very large very complex FileMaker Pro database which feeds (with a great deal of massaging) into an InDesign file.

> The services of the international registrars would be to assist in the
> translation.

Translation and transliteration.

Part of the problem is or course that we can't tell any of our Associate Registrars what to charge. 

We could say something like: Foreign registrants must pay the equivalent of USD$15.00 (minimum) to the Associate Registrar for each registration or Reservation. The Associate Registrar in turn may keep USD$5.00 and must send AIS $10.00 of each of those registrations or reservations received. The Associate Registrars may choose to charge additional fees for their services.

John 

> They can charge whatever they want for that translation
> service. International hybridizers could hire anybody they want to do the
> translating.
> Just "stirring the pot"!
> Terry
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aisdiscuss@aisboard.org [mailto:owner-aisdiscuss@aisboard.org]
> On Behalf Of cheryl deaton
> Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2011 9:34 AM
> To: aisdiscuss@aisboard.org
> Subject: RE: [AISdiscuss] Foreign Registration Fee
> 
> Bob,
> As a US hybridizer, I disliked the unfairness of foreign hybridizers riding
> on
> our backs and not having to pay fees to AIS for their registrations, which
> numbered MORE than 50% of the registrations last year.  For me it had
> nothing
> to do with balancing books, but correcting an inequity.  The Associate
> Registrars perform functions that are not needed by US hybridizers and I
> felt
> that as the official Registrar of irises, AIS should be paid the same by
> all.
> That's it - no hidden agenda.
> Cheryl
> 
> 
>> Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 15:05:29 -0400
>> From: robertpries@embarqmail.com
>> To: aisdiscuss@aisboard.org
>> Subject: Re: [AISdiscuss] Foreign Registration Fee
>> 
>> We all know about the law of unintended cosequenses. No matter the reality
> the
>> appearance is that AIS is trying to balance their books on the backs of
> the
>> Foreign Hybridizers. The Foreign Hybridizers are having to pay more than
> the
>> USA hybridizers. Of course the motion actually said it wanted something
> fair
>> but your interpretation does not come out that way.
>> 
>> 
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "John Jones" <jijones@usjoneses.com>
>> To: aisdiscuss@aisboard.org
>> Sent: Friday, August 12, 2011 12:17:55 PM
>> Subject: Re: [AISdiscuss] Foreign Registration Fee
>> 
>> No, that is not the interpretation that the Board intended. In the
>> discussions, the fee was intended to be in addition B any fees charged by
> the
>> Associate Registrars.
>> 
>> 
>> John
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Aug 12, 2011, at 8:41 AM, Robert Pries wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The motion made by the board this Spring was; That foreign registrants pay
> AIS
>> the same registration fee as US and Canadian Registrants pay. Fee to be
> paid
>> in USD, effective August 1, 2011 . Motion carried . B B Since the fees
>> collected by The assistant registrars in each country have been given to
> them
>> for their services acting as collectors and translators B B I would take
> this
>> to mean that AIS would have to return the amount to those assistants that
> is
>> under the price of registration and in some cases pay the additional
> amount
>> the were receiving to the assistants. The Foreign registrants fee should
> not
>> increase but in several cases may decrease because it will be the same as
> USA
>> registrants according to the motion and AIS will owe the respective
> assistants
>> those lost funds.
>> 
>> 
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "John Jones" < jijones@usjoneses.com >
>> To: aisdiscuss@aisboard.org
>> Cc: "Mike Lowe" < mlowe@worldiris.com >
>> Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2011 2:14:52 PM
>> Subject: [AISdiscuss] Foreign Registration Fee
>> 
>> All,
>> 
>> 
>> I have been in discussion with Michele Bersillon concerning the new fee
> for
>> foreign registrants to pay the same fee as North American hybridizers and
> her
>> request to register directly with the AIS since she is an American
> national
>> and files completely in English.
>> 
>> 
>> I have previously told her that she would need to continue to file through
> an
>> associate registrar and that as to the fees. If the country registrar
> charges
>> a fee, it is in addition to the fee required by the AIS.
>> 
>> 
>> Her most recent response is below and as the world wide registration
> authority
>> for non-bulbous irises, the AIS Board of Directors needs to be aware of
> the
>> potential implications of their recent decision.
>> 
>> 
>> While some of this may just be pique, there may be some potential
> problem(s).
>> On the other hand I have notB yetB heard complaints from any other
> Associate
>> Registrars except to enquire about details of how people are to pay. I am
>> setting up a PayPal account and trying to work out some of those details.
>> 
>> 
>> We could adopt a policy that would allow the Associate Registrars to take
> some
>> amount of the AIS fee (e.g., $5.00) for their service. Registrants would
> pay
>> $10 to AIS and whatever fee to the Associate Registrar. Or pay the
> Associate
>> registrar directly and the Associate pay the AIS (via PayPal)
>> 
>> 
>> I am open to other suggestions, lacking any other action by the Board, B
> to
>> continue with the policy as instituted.
>> 
>> 
>> Thanks
>> 
>> 
>> John
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Begin forwarded message:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> From: M Bersillon < auxiris5@orange.fr >
>> 
>> Date: August 10, 2011 11:43:04 PM PDT
>> 
>> To: John Jones < jijones@usjoneses.com >
>> 
>> Subject: Re: Misc
>> 
>> 
>> John,
>> 
>> 
>> For your information, all associate registrars have always charged a fee
> for
>> registration (it varies from country to country), so all registrants
> outside
>> of north America will now be paying over $15 for each registration; I am
> not
>> the only one involved! B However, I would like to say feel that it is very
>> unfair to ask people outside of the United States to now pay the
> equivalent
> of
>> somewhere between $19 and nearly $23 for official registration of each
> plant
>> and, unless the various European iris societies decide to stop demanding a
> fee
>> for registrations, you may eventually find yourself either with a
> rebellion
> on
>> your hands or simply a progressiveB refusalB on the part of Europeans to
>> register their plants with the AIS. B This may result in the
> indiscriminate
>> use of names that may already have been used by previously registered
> plants
>> or simply those that aren't officially registered, even by plants that are
>> commercialised, with the confusion that you can easily imagine. B There
> are
>> already a whole whack of iris commercialised in France that don't have
>> officially registered names, including an entire page in the Bourdillon
>> catalogue, for example; I don't know why they never registered these
> plants.
>> B B
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Just for the record and since you ask, I ceased registering my plants with
> the
>> SFIB for many reasons. B First of all, the registrar of this association
> made
>> many mistakes on one of my first registrations and then, when I sent him
>> corrections, he set about making others and finally I had to correct the
>> problem directly with Keith Keppel, since Jean Peyrard is a most difficult
>> person to deal with directly and does not accept remarks about the
> mistakes
>> that he continues to make with good grace. B Then I had other problems
> with
>> the association and no longer wished either to be a member or pay them any
>> money for any reason, so I requested to send in registration forms
> directly
>> and pay the full AIS fee, but was not allowed to do so. B The AIS
> registrar
> at
>> the time told me that I had to send my forms in French to the SFIB
> registrar
>> and then post a form in English directly to him, plus paying the SFIB fee,
>> which was not acceptable to me---just to spare someone's feelings. B Life
> is
>> complicated enough already. B Simply to be able to continue to officially
>> register plants, I asked Gisela Dathe if I could send in my already
> filled-out
>> English language forms through GdS and have been paying their fee even
> though
>> they do not do anything more than post my forms along with theirs. B Now
> that
>> the forms are likely to be electronic ones (a definite progress), there
> may
>> not be much in the way of actual postal fees, so I have no idea how they
> will
>> deal with that. B I would suggest that, as the new AIS registrar, you
> contact
>> them about how they are going to do things, as Gisela wasn't aware of how
>> things are going to work now when I asked her earlier this year. B B B
>> 
>> 
>> Incidentally, Richard Cayeux told me a few things about his problems with
>> registrations this year, including a refusal of the name "Ciel Gris sur
>> Poilly", which seemed very strange to me since I didn't think the name
> could
>> possibly have already been used. B Apparently there was some issue about
> the
>> name having four words, but this has been allowed for quite some time now
> and
>> is even mentioned on the SFIB website, so it is very unclear what
> happened.
>> B Should Richard get in touch with you directly to straighten out this
> matter?
>> B B B
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> All the best,
>> 
>> 
>> MicheleB
>> 
>> 
>> P.S My first name has only one "l". B
>> B B
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> __________________B
>> John I Jones
>> Registrar-Recorder
>> American Iris Society
>> aisregistrar@irises.org
>> 
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To sign-off this list, send email to the AIS Secretary
>> <aissecretary@irises.org>
>> The archives for AISDiscuss are at:
>> http://www.aisboard.org/lists/aisdiscuss/
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> __________________B
>> John I Jones
>> Registrar-Recorder
>> American Iris Society
>> aisregistrar@irises.org
>> 
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To sign-off this list, send email to the AIS Secretary
>> <aissecretary@irises.org>
>> The archives for AISDiscuss are at:
>> http://www.aisboard.org/lists/aisdiscuss/
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To sign-off this list, send email to the AIS Secretary
> <aissecretary@irises.org>
> The archives for AISDiscuss are at:
> http://www.aisboard.org/lists/aisdiscuss/
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To sign-off this list, send email to the AIS Secretary
> <aissecretary@irises.org>
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__________________ 
John I Jones
Registrar-Recorder
American Iris Society
aisregistrar@irises.org


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References:
- RE: Foreign Registration Fee Speculation.
  - From: "Terry Aitken" <terry@flowerfantasy.net>
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